Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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the we're all three feeling weird edition.
Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that strange? So yeah, I said that I was just feeling kind of off today and you said me too. And Jerry said me three. Yeah. What does that mean? I don't know, but I mean, that is very, that's remarkable to me that all three of us, I mean, we all have three different personalities. We don't like, you know, we don't live together despite what most people think.
Yeah. Not anymore.
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Chapter 2: Who was Linda Hazzard and what was her controversial practice?
Yeah, like the Kellogg brothers in Battle Creek.
Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, that we had not in the United States yet set up sort of rules around the medical world at this point.
No, but it's coming. It's like right around that time and in part because of so much quackery that was going on. At the same time, a lot of this stuff is what you would call alternative medicine today or just sensible stuff. Like... The Kellogg brothers had a bunch of weird stuff and their whole jam was fairly weird.
But if you boiled everything down to what they were saying, a lot of it was like diet and exercise, which is just great advice today as far as health is concerned. The problem is, is like some people took this to terrible extremes. Other people were peddling just like outright fake and dangerous medicines.
Like there were there were the outliers were so bad that they were ruining it for everybody who actually had some legitimate stuff that they were doing. And Linda Hazard was an outlier. Although, again, I think she was a true believer in herself and her her cure was.
Yeah, for sure. But, you know, to be clear, she was not serving up bowls of granula. She was killing people like I think 15 patients starved to death under her watch.
Yes.
And she would eventually go to go to trial for for the murder of one.
Yeah, it was a sensation in 1912.
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Chapter 3: What treatment methods did Linda Hazzard use on her patients?
I think their father died after Clare was born and then their mom died about 16 years later. So they were. You know, they were orphaned teens who were really, really rich and really, really tight, very close with one another. Yeah. And seemed to be like adventurous, not in a hurry to get married, which is what you would think for the time period to get married right away.
They kind of like to travel the world and go on adventures and not follow the prescribed method.
Yeah. They were independent women of the 90s, the 1890s.
That's right.
So they also, though, they weren't entirely orphan. I mean, as far as like biological parents maybe are concerned, but they had a governess who took care of them as well. And I think kind of was was part of their life long before their their mother died. But I have the impression that she was like a like an additional mom or an additional grandmother or something to them. Right.
So I think that's how the Richies do it.
Yeah, for sure. So just keep that in mind that these women are slightly outside of the norm. They have no problem with being slightly outside of the norm. And they are very interesting and interested people. They're very curious. And one of the things that they are focused on is natural health. Like they're just super into that kind of thing. And by the time they cross paths with Linda Hazard,
They've done all sorts of stuff, like any kind of cure you can think of. They've traveled to some sanitarium or sanatorium. They've traveled to some health clinic. And they've just done this whole thing. It's like basically what they were interested in.
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, they did some kind of brave things at the time for the time period. They they were like, I don't want to wear corsets anymore. They're super uncomfortable. And I think they're probably bad for us. So they didn't wear corsets anymore. They gave up meat. Eating meat was or being vegetarian, I guess, at the very least, was a pretty weird thing back then.
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Chapter 4: How did Linda Hazzard's practices lead to patient deaths?
So even Dr. Edward Dewey was not exactly like groundbreaking with that idea.
Yeah. And people are like, it all comes from the poop. And they're like, have you smelled this stuff? There's no way that's good. It's gross. What if poop not, you know, I guess we're going there. I'm going there. Okay. What if poop didn't smell like that at all? And I'm not saying, oh, what if it smelled like, you know, something great?
Like, what if it just literally had no odor and that was it? Like, would the world be a really a better place? I say yes.
Yeah, I guess, sure. I guess I don't smell enough poop in any given day that it really ruins the world for me.
Well, I mean, you have your outhouse.
Sure, but I steer clear of it.
Yeah. I was just curious, like, on the divorce rate, like, what all would change? Airports? Airport happiness?
Okay, yes. Airports. That's a really good point right there. Yeah, that's the worst. Yeah, it really is really bad. Like, that's a good reason not to fly before, like, 10 a.m.
Like, it's one thing to be married to somebody, but you don't want to smell the poop of 12 strangers.
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Chapter 5: What were the circumstances surrounding the trial of Linda Hazzard?
So close.
So Claire and Dora get there in February of 1911. And she was like, hey, we're not going to stay here in Wilderness Heights. I'm not sure why she did this. I have a feeling that she knew that she had some big fish on the line. Yeah, that's what I mean, too. So she took them to Seattle instead.
And she basically lied to him and said that the Alala Woods retreat wasn't completed yet, even though I think it clearly was. And so they put them up in some apartments in downtown Seattle, started their fasting treatment and the vigorous massage. And they were eating two cups of vegetable broth. Sounds like basically canned tomato juice a day.
I also saw, I think Dora later said that they were made from asparagus tips, spinach, and lettuce. A broth made from that. Yeah, veggie broth. Yeah, so not anything that you could possibly even remotely get full off of. Yeah, like you said, I think a cup twice a day. Yeah. That's just, yeah. So you're going to lose weight very quickly.
And this was like 40 plus days of fasting that Hazard was prescribing to her patients, right? And so I think both of the Williamson sisters made it to 50 days before they were transferred to Wilderness Heights. They didn't walk. They were on stretchers. That's how they got to Wilderness Heights from their apartment in downtown Seattle.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I mean, from what I can tell, they weren't screaming on the way, like, get me help. Like, it feels like they were either all in still on this or just so out of it at this point, they didn't know any better, you know?
Yes. Or they were asking for help, but they were asking for it like Stevie from Malcolm in the Middle, where they were like, get me.
That was pretty good, Stevie. Thanks. Did you watch the reboot of that? No.
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Chapter 6: What was the public reaction to Linda Hazzard's trial?
Yeah. Like, Noah Wiley didn't leave yet. I don't even think his buddy fully agreed to getting the treatment he's supposed to get. What's going on with Al Hashimi? Like the last thing we saw, she just kind of had a meltdown in her car. There's just all this stuff's up in the air.
Oh, I think that was the purpose. I think it just was cliffhanger after cliffhanger.
Okay, yes, I can get cliffhangers, but it's almost like it just petered out rather than cut it. Like, they just cut. Hmm. All right. Disagree. All right. Well, I was surprised that that was how they ended it.
We just spoiled some stuff, by the way. Oh, yeah. We should probably. Well, we didn't say anything huge. Noah Wiley didn't leave. Big deal.
Okay.
All right. Does he ever leave? I don't know. That's what I was expecting him to. No, I just mean Noah Wiley. He never leaves. He comes over. He overstays his welcome. Everyone's like, when's this guy going to get on his motorcycle and drive out of here? It's true. All right. I feel like we're really off the rails now. We should take a break and come back. Yes? Yeah. All right. We'll be right back.
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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, Nick? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Yeah, a pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.
So how did we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it, and... Well, we were thinking of originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.
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Chapter 7: How did Linda Hazzard's case influence medical regulations?
And that, I think, immediately rubbed Margaret Conway the wrong way. And she was like, give me Dora. I'm taking Dora home. And Linda and Samuel said, not so fast.
Yeah. Well, Dora was in the same shape. She weighed about 50 pounds, was barely alive at this point. And so, yeah, she asked for and the hazards are like, actually, we're the executor of her estate. She is under our legal guardianship forever. And my husband, Samuel, has power of attorney over all of her and the family's financial matters.
And not only that is you've got a medical bill you need to pay. You owe us two grand.
It was about 70K today.
Yeah.
Margaret Conway is like, well, I don't have 70 grand. I have no idea how to overturn a legal guardianship. But it just so happened that Claire and Dora's uncle, John Herbert, was just up in Portland, not very far away, even back in 1911, 1910. Down in Portland. Down in... Oh... Yeah. Sorry. It's got to be, right? No, 100%. It is. Okay. I have which show we did backwards.
Usually we do Seattle first and then Portland, right? Yeah. Okay. So anyway, John Herbert was down in Portland and Margaret Conway got in touch with him and was like, I need your help. Like these... Claire's been killed and Dora was in big trouble. She's about to die. And these two hucksters have like all sorts of legal mumbo jumbo going on. And John Herbert got involved.
He's like, I'm a man and this is the Edwardian era. So everybody listen to me. And that's when things started moving.
Yeah, for sure. Samuel Hazard did produce a document. It was a typewritten statement that he said Claire dictated this to us on her deathbed, but she didn't sign it because she was too weak to sign it because of the whole liver issue. It said, to my relatives and friends, I'm writing a statement to say that Dora and I entered
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Chapter 8: What ultimately happened to Linda Hazzard after her trial?
There's actually some evidence at the very end that we'll see, but I that's just so dumb that I and I have the impression that Linda Hazard was not a dumb person at all. I just can't believe that she believed that.
I feel like given the financial piece, I feel like she knew what she was doing.
Okay.
That's just my take on it.
Right. So, again, there were some supporters who were like, hey, you know, like she's being persecuted. And the jury said, you know what? We're going to split the middle here. We're going to find her guilty on a charge of manslaughter, not murder. So everybody can be unhappy.
Yeah, basically. She was sentenced to two to 20 hard labor at Walla Walla Penitentiary. And that wasn't it, though, because she appealed the case and appealed it and appealed it all the way up to the United States or was it the state Supreme Court?
No, the U.S. Supreme Court, from what I understand.
U.S. Supreme Court. It took about 18 months to get there. And, you know, she had supporters sending in letters the whole time saying to release her. The state of Washington did revoke her license to practice medicine, but she did continue to practice. Two more deaths happened after Claire Williamson. And then she finally goes to prison eventually at Walla Walla.
Yeah. So while she's appealing and is out and about on bail, two more people die. She kills two more people. That's just crazy. She finally gets to walla walla, like you said. And that two to 20 years is what's known as an indeterminate sentence. Like you have to serve at least a minimum, but you're not going to serve beyond 20. Right.
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