What Has The Manosphere Taught Us? | Surrounded Follow-Up
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Actually, when you look at the research of what makes for a happy relationship, these things aren't even on the map.
Okay, so if a woman has, let's say, 12, 13, 17 bodies, how many relationships have you been in? Three.
Because women are exactly like cars, obviously. Relationships with women is largely transactional, and when you are approaching a relationship in a transactional way, you're trying to get the best deal possible. Porn consumption disproportionately harms men. All right.
I'm here with Mark Manson. Great job in Surrounded. Thanks for jumping into the arena and thanks for doing this follow-up. Of course.
It was an experience.
It was an experience. You're not like a debate me bro. That's not kind of your... Brand as much. Have you done anything remarkably similar to Surrounded?
No. Normally I would not be interested in doing this at all, but given the topic was the Manosphere and I guess kind of given the unique nature of where my career started and my history with these types of guys, it actually felt like a great opportunity and I felt well positioned to be the person to do it, I guess you could say.
Yeah. Well, there's always been a manosphere-ish like strain in our culture, especially American culture. Would you consider yourself like kind of adjacent to that? Like you were in kind of like the... you know, the self-esteem, self-help kind of niche of culture. Your book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, very popular book kind of at the time it came out. Did you see yourself as sort of like adjacent to kind of that niche of culture when it came out? But obviously it's turned into something different now.
Why did Mark Manson decide to engage with the manosphere creators on Surrounded?
How do you think about it?
So To go back even further than that, like well before I wrote Subtle Art, I built my first audience online as a dating relationship coach in the late 2000s, early 2010s. And as a young man dating relationship coach, it was inevitable that I would start kind of bumping up against today what we call the manosphere. Back then it was called the red pill. There's also kind of a branch of it called the pickup artists. That's what I'm most familiar with. Like the pickup artist era. Yes. The H1 had a show, right? Yes. It had a whole moment. So I used to run into these guys all the time. Like, I mean, honestly, early in my career, these guys were my clients. And I remember getting into these debates with them around women and sex and everything.
relationships and what is healthy and what is natural and what is normal and smart. You know, some of them have actually done quite a bit of digging into evolutionary psychology and sociology and history. And so I remember kind of going through a phase at that time of feeling like I needed to educate myself on a lot of these sort of sorts of topics or topics adjacent to this just because I just found myself arguing with so many of these guys so it was it the the surrounded episode in many ways felt like a little bit of a full circle moment for me in that I think now I'm kind of the older generation I'm in my 40s and I think most of the guys there were probably 20s or early 30s and I've been both shocked and a little bit alarmed that this strain of thinking has come back with such a vengeance over the last few years.
Um, it's been, it's been troubling to me. And, and so, you know, when, when you guys reached out, it, Like I said, normally I don't like to do debate type of things and get in arguments on the internet. In fact, I generally avoid arguments on the internet. But when you guys reached out, I was like, okay, I feel like I have to do this.
yeah well we appreciate it and i think that that shows though the just the general energy and you'll see in these clips because you haven't seen any of the footage as we're recording this in the clips it's not a very debatey energy you you're not a combative person relative to some of our our previous guests and i'm i'm really excited to jump into this because obviously i'm also a man and and these topics uh weave through my experience before we go to michael i want to do
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–1:47
2
Why did Mark Manson decide to engage with the manosphere creators on Surrounded?
1:47–10:43
3
How did Mark describe his early involvement with pickup and red pill communities?
10:43–30:55
4
Why do some manosphere members treat relationships as transactional?
30:55–50:17
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from Surrounded
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