The Art of Online Business
Episodes
Inside Michelle Knight’s $27 Funnel That Hit 2.5x ROAS on Facebook & Instagram Ads
06 Apr 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Ever wish you could peek inside a real $27 funnel while it’s working, wobbling, and getting rebuilt in real time? Michelle Knight is back, and we ge...
Why Smart Course Creators Treat Facebook & Instagram Ads Like a Lab
30 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
What if the reason your ads aren’t working… is because you’re treating them like a gamble instead of a lab? Get the 48-Hour Ad Fix Audit I wal...
Lead Costs Rising on Your Facebook & Instagram Ads? Do THIS Before Touching Targeting
23 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Lead costs on your Facebook and Instagram ads starting to creep up? Get the 48-Hour Ad Fix Audit I share a real troubleshooting sessio...
When $300/Month on Facebook & Instagram Ads DOESN’T Make Sense
16 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Spending just $300 a month on ads feels safe, but it can actually hide bigger problems in your business. Get the 48-Hour Ad Fix Audit I explain when...
Your Ads Are Whispering Money Secrets… Are You Listening?
09 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Your ads are literally telling you how to make more money — most course creators just ignore the clues. Get the 48-Hour Ad Fix Audit ...
Why the Best‑Performing Facebook & Instagram Ads Aren’t the Most Polished
02 Mar 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Some of the ads that make the most money don’t look impressive at all — and I explain why that is actually a good thing. Get the ...
The Questions I Ask Before We Ever Spend Another Dollar on Facebook & Instagram Ads
23 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Thinking about spending more on ads? Hold up — I share the exact questions I ask before anyone increases their Facebook and Instagram Ad budget. Ge...
Meta Andromeda - A Simple, Effective Ad Setup for Online Course Creators
16 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
If you’ve heard about the Meta Andromeda update and felt confused—or worse, saw your ad performance drop—this episode is for you. ...
How Jacques Hopkins Built a Profitable SLO Funnel with Facebook & Instagram Ads
09 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Ever wondered what a real profitable SLO funnel actually looks like behind the scenes? Jacques Hopkins is back on the show, and this time we’re gett...
This ONE Tweak Increased my Friend’s Course Sales with Facebook & Instagram Ads
02 Feb 2026
Contributed by Lukas
A friend of mine is running Facebook and Instagram ads to his course and asks why sales feel harder than they should. When I look at his sales page, I...
Will changing Facebook and Instagram ad copy erase my social proof?
26 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Ever wonder if you can tweak the copy on a Facebook or Instagram ad without killing all the likes and comments? Get the 48-Hour Ad Fi...
Are Your Facebook & Instagram ads In Learning Limited? Do This First!
19 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Seeing “Learning Limited” on your Facebook or Instagram ads can feel scary, but it’s usually not the problem people think it is. ...
Tarzan Kay’s Shockingly Simple List-Building Strategy (And Why Meta Ads Made It Work)
12 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Tarzan is a copywriter and newsletter creator known for her story-driven emails and consent-based approach to selling. She spent years dismantling a s...
How to Know If It’s Time to Scale (or Pause) Your Workshop Ads
05 Jan 2026
Contributed by Lukas
Ever look at your workshop ads and wonder, “Should I scale this or shut it off before I waste more money?” Get the 48-Hour Ad Fix A...
Should You Still Use ManyChat for Ads in 2026? My Honest Take.
29 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
I get this question a lot, especially with all the changes coming into 2026: should you still be running ads to ManyChat, or is it time to move on? ...
Should You Run Ads for Your Course Launch? A $66,907 Case Study
22 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Megan Yelaney is a business strategist who’s helped over 1,000 coaches grow their brands by getting crystal clear on what makes them actually differ...
Do You Really Need Separate Warm and Cold Meta Ad Audiences?
15 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Running Meta ads can get confusing fast, especially when you hear people say you should combine all your targeting together. After managing ads for ye...
Broad vs. Detailed Targeting Facebook ads in 2026. Which One Actually Works?
08 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’re confused about whether broad or detailed targeting is the smarter move for Facebook and Instagram ads in 2026, I break down what’s actua...
What to do When Your Facebook & Instagram Ads Stop Working.
01 Dec 2025
Contributed by Lukas
When an ad suddenly stops working, the last thing you want to do is panic and shut everything down. Get the 48-Hour Ad Fix Audit ...
The New 2026 Simple Ads Setup That Works Well With Meta Andromeda Update
24 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
The Meta Andromeda update has shaken up ad performance for a lot of online course creators but it doesn’t have to ruin your results. ...
Is Your Online Course Business Actually Ready for Facebook & Instagram Ads?
17 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
A lot of course creators rush into Facebook and Instagram ads before their business is actually ready, and that’s the fastest way to burn through yo...
Does Open Targeting Really Work for Online Course Creators?
10 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
A lot of course creators are being told to just “go broad” with Facebook and Instagram ads right now… but that advice could easily waste your bu...
My Second-Highest ROI Activity This Year (and It’s Not What You Think) Featuring Linda Sidhu
03 Nov 2025
Contributed by Lukas
I never expected a mastermind to become my second-highest ROI move of the year, but The Mixer Mind did exactly that. Over two years inside Linda Sadhu...
How To Do Detailed Targeting on Facebook Ads (Online Course Creator Edition)
27 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Most course creators get excited about detailed targeting, but that’s where they end up wasting the most money. Cut your lead gen co...
Facebook Ads Best Targeting Strategy for Leads (Online Course Creator Edition)
20 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Most course creators think the secret to great targeting is stacking interests and job titles, but that’s actually what drives ad costs up. ...
The 3-Ad System That Makes Online Course Businesses Profitable
13 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
A lot of people think ads will magically fix an online course business that isn’t working, but that’s not how it goes. Cut your le...
Troubleshooting Facebook and Instagram Ads Increase in Cost Per Lead
06 Oct 2025
Contributed by Lukas
When your cost per lead suddenly jumps, it can feel like panic mode but most of the time, your ads are fixable. Cut your lead gen cost...
The Real Reason Your Ads Keep Wasting Money
29 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
I hear it all the time, “we spent money on ads and got nothing back.” The real issue usually isn’t the ads themselves, it’s not watching the...
Everything You Need Before Running Webinar Facebook & Instagram Ads That Convert
22 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’re planning to sell your course with a webinar or challenge, you’ll need more than just ads... you’ll need the right setup. ...
Why Your Self-Liquidating Offer Isn’t Paying for Itself (Yet)
15 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Your self-liquidating offer isn’t broken—it’s just missing a key step. I walk you through why most $27 low-ticket funnels fail to pay for themse...
Should you listen to Meta's Facebook & Instagram Ad Recommendations?
08 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Meta keeps popping “helpful” tips in Ads Manager, but should you trust them? Cut your lead gen costs in HALF with my $37 mini-c...
How to Run Facebook Ads to Fill Your Webinar or Challenge (So You Can Sell More of Your Course)
01 Sep 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Thinking about running ads to fill your next webinar or challenge? I break down exactly how to set up Facebook and Instagram ads so you can bring in t...
Why Ads Managers Say No to Your Revenue Share Offer (And What to Do Instead)
25 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Thinking of offering revenue share to an ads manager so you don’t have to pay upfront? I get why it feels like a win-win, but the reality is that go...
DON'T Start Facebook & Instgram Ads Until You Watch This
18 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’ve been wondering whether it’s the right time to run Facebook and Instagram ads, this episode will save you a lot of money and frustration....
Simple Funnel Fixes That Lead to More Sales Featuring Tracy Beavers
11 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
When I asked, “What podcast topics would help your online course business grow the most?” some of the responses were, “What to focus on NOW as a...
Take This Shortcut To Quicker Facebook & Instagram Ads Success
04 Aug 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Here's the shortcut that helped me grow faster, with way less stress—and how you can apply it to your Facebook and Instagram ads. ...
How Early Should You Turn Your Ads On Before A Launch?
28 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’re running Facebook or Instagram ads for a launch this fall, I’ll walk you through exactly when to turn them on for the best results, wheth...
How Karin Carr Replaced Her High Ticket Launches by Running Facebook & Instagram Ads $24 Offer
21 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Karin Carr shares exactly how she turned things around by running Facebook & Instagram ads to a low-ticket offer when sales for her high-ticket co...
DIY Facebook & Instagram Ads or Hire It Out? Here’s How to Decide.
14 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’ve been wondering whether to keep DIY-ing your Facebook and Instagram ads or finally hand them off to a pro, let me break it all down so you ...
How Do I Know If I’m Actually Ready for Facebook Ads?
07 Jul 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Wondering if it’s the right time to run Facebook or Instagram ads for your launch? I share exactly what you need to know so you can feel clear and c...
Want More Clients? Fix Your Words First Featuring Justin Blackman
30 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Most ad copy is written to attract everyone—and that’s exactly why it doesn’t work. I sit down with Brand Voice Expert Justin Blackman to talk a...
How to Turn Instagram Followers into Customers (Course Creator Edition)
23 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Got an Instagram following but not enough sales to show for it? Let's break down how my clients (real course creators) are turning Reels into lea...
How to Use AI to Write Ad Copy (For Course Creators with a Lead Magnet)
16 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
I walk you through the full step-by-step process I gave a client, how I train AI to write better hooks, and the simple tweaks that help avoid generic,...
3x ROAS from a Photographer’s $27 Low-Ticket Offer Facebook Ads Funnel Featuring Brooklyn Grotte
09 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Brooklyn Grotte is a luxury photographer, business coach, and the founder of The 5X Photographer—a transformational program helping photographers gr...
A Membership Owner Broke Even On Day 1 with Facebook & Instagram Ads!
02 Jun 2025
Contributed by Lukas
A membership owner is running Facebook & Instagram ads to get up to 10 new members a day and broke even on Day 1 after taking my Ad Testing Cheat ...
How to Run Facebook & Instagram Ads to a Lead Magnet on a Mailchimp Landing Page
26 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Are you using Mailchimp and want to run Facebook and Instagram ads to your lead magnet, but the setup feels confusing? Cut your lea...
The Truth About VAs: What You Really Need to Grow Your Business featuring Emily Reagan
19 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Emily Reagan is a freelance marketing coach and the founder of the Unicorn Digital Marketing Assistant School and the Digital Marketer’s Workgroup. ...
Should I Say ‘Free’ in the Ad Copy for My Lead Magnet?
12 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Let's break down why using words like free, gift, or no-cost can actually help cold audiences trust you faster and make them more likely to opt i...
Should I Include the Price in My Facebook and Instagram Ad Copy?
05 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’ve ever wondered whether you should put the price in your Facebook and Instagram ad copy, the answer is YES... and let me tell you why....
The Right Audience Size for Facebook and Instagram Ads—And What to Test First
02 May 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Let's break down the best audience size to aim for when running Facebook and Instagram ads—and how to start testing with a lookalike of your em...
Give Instagram What It Wants: How to Grow Faster Featuring Jac Kalaher
30 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Jac Kalaher is the founder and CEO of @stjohnsbff (St. Johns Business, Faith, and Friendship) and recently launched her education platform, @themissio...
Building a Business Around Faith and Friendship featuring Jac Kalaher
28 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Jac Kalaher has over 20 years of experience in marketing and is a certified Transformation Life Coach. She helps people find their true purpose and bu...
Wreck Your Facebook & Instagram Ad Performance IF You Overlook This Mistake
25 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’re copying ad sets in Meta Ads, there’s one hidden setting that can hurt your results without you noticing. Cut your l...
Your Facebook & Instagram Ads Aren’t the Problem—Your Offer and Funnel Might Be With Becky Kopitzke
23 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Becky is the founder of The Inspired Business, an organization dedicated to coaching Christian writers, speakers, podcasters, and other content creato...
How Becky Kopitzke Built a Six Figure Business Serving Christian Creators
21 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Becky Kopitzke is the author of four non-fiction books in the Christian living genre and a three-time guest on Focus on the Family’s daily broadcast...
Why You're Losing Money by Not Testing New Facebook and Instagram Targeting Audiences
18 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you’ve ever wondered whether different audiences respond the same way to your Facebook and Instagram ads, the answer is—probably not. ...
Want To Grow Your Business with Video (No Trends Required)? Do THIS! Featuring Natasha Pierre
16 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Natasha, a video marketing expert and host of the Shine Online Podcast—is back and talks about how to create a video series that builds trust and tu...
Six Figures Doing Done For You Video Content With Natasha Pierre
14 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We’re joined by Natasha Pierre—host of the Shine Online Podcast and a Video Marketing Coach for small businesses. Through her group programs and e...
DIY Facebook and Instagram Ads or Hire It Out? Here’s How to Decide
11 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
You're probably wondering, when is it a good idea to manage your own Facebook and Instagram ads and when it's better to bring in a pro? ...
3 Pillars To Setting And Crushing Goals In A Stress-Less, No Hustle Way with Gabe Cox
09 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Gabe Cox is a goal planning and business strategist who teaches how to market your business without relying on social media, so you can ditch the hust...
How to Grow a Business Without Social Media Featuring Gabe Cox
07 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Gabe Cox is a goal planning and business strategist and the founder of Red Hot Mindset, who helps entrepreneurs personalize and take action on a game ...
How Do I know if I'm Ready For Facebook & Instagram Ads
04 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Let’s talk about whether you’re actually ready to run Facebook and Instagram ads for your business. Cut your lead gen costs i...
What's working on Instagram in 2025 with Jodie Brown
02 Apr 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Jodie Brown is a marketing agency owner, educator, podcaster, and international luxury retreat host who specializes in helping coaches and educators r...
Six Figures as a Content Marketing Agency Owner & Luxury Retreat Host With Jodie Brown
31 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Jodie Brown, a marketing agency owner, educator, podcaster, and luxury retreat host, has found her sweet spot helping coaches and educators get notice...
Got a Winning Facebook & Instagram Ad? Here’s How to Create More (and Maybe a Better One)
28 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Want to make your successful Facebook and Instagram ads even better without starting over? Cut your lead gen costs in HALF with m...
The Power of YouTube Traffic: Step-by-Step Funnel Breakdown with Gillian Perkins
26 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Gillian Perkins, a YouTuber with over 700,000 subscribers, is back to share how she turns YouTube traffic into sales. Cut your lead gen costs...
5 Kids, 6 Figures: Gillian Perkins’ Path to a Profitable Membership Business Fueled by YouTube
24 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Gillian Perkins is an entrepreneur and YouTuber with over 700,000 subscribers. She shares how she balances running a big family and being the CEO of S...
Ads to your SLO Funnel Losing Money? Try this!
21 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
If you're spending money on ads for your low-ticket offer but still losing money, I’ve got some tips for you. Cut your lea...
Want High Converting Emails? Do This First! Featuring Copywriter Elise Hodge
19 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Elise Hodge is back on the podcast to share how to create high-converting email sequences. Cut your lead gen costs in HALF with m...
How a Copywriter Turns $200 Into $350 Daily With a Facebook Ads Funnel featuring Elise Hodge
17 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Elise Hodge is a copywriter and funnel strategist who knows how to turn a $200 daily ad spend into $350 using Facebook Ads. Cut y...
Struggling to Make Ads to Your Low-Ticket Offer Profitable? Do This
14 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Let's talk about a common mistake in Facebook and Instagram ads for low-ticket offers. If your ads aren’t making a profit, your sales funnel mi...
Speaking Tips to Become the “Go To” Person in Your Niche Featuring Laurie-Ann Murabito
12 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Laurie-Ann Murabito, a well-known speaking coach, talks about how public speaking can help build your brand and grow your business. ...
How an Airport Shooter Changed Laurie-Ann’s Business Model
10 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Laurie-Ann, a best-selling author and host of the Be In Demand podcast, shares how she went from being painfully shy to mastering and teaching public ...
High Meta Ads Lead Costs? Your Lead Magnet Might Be the Problem
07 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Let's break down how changing a lead magnet can seriously cut down lead costs on Meta ads. I share a real case where a client’s lead cost dropp...
How to Create Launch-Size Revenue Without Launching featuring Polly Lavarello
05 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Polly Lavarello, an everyday sales strategist, shares the reality of evergreen sales strategies and how they help businesses grow in a steady and sust...
Making Six Figures as an Every Day Sales Strategist Featuring Polly Lavarello
03 Mar 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Polly Lavarello’s evergreen scaling strategies turn audaciously ambitious and highly-skilled business owners into Cushy CEOs. Polly shares her journ...
Get the Highest Quality Lead at the Lowest Cost
28 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Remember: Low-cost leads don’t always convert. If you're only focused on getting the lowest cost per lead, you might end up attracting people w...
Why Not All "Bro" Marketing Tactics are Bad and What That Means for your Business, Featuring Rob Marsh
26 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Rob Marsh is back to talk about "bro" marketing—why some people don’t like it and why not all of it is bad for your business. C...
Building THE Leading Copywriting Community featuring Rob Marsh of The Copywriter Club
24 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Rob Marsh from The Copywriter Club is a direct response copywriter who specializes in email and sales pages. Today, we talk about building a leading c...
Why I Let Go of My Old Courses to Create New Ones
21 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Out with the old, in with the new! I'm phasing out my old courses and rolling out new ones that better fit what course creators and coaches tru...
The Road to 100% Sales Call Conversions: What Most Miss at 60% featuring Dielle Charon
19 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We're back with Dielle Charon, a certified life coach and sales expert who transitioned from a 9-5 job to coaching and empowering women of color ...
Making Seven Figures Teaching Sales to Women of Color Featuring Dielle Charon
17 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Dielle Charon, MSW, is a certified life coach and 7-figure sales expert for WOC coaches. Dielle shares her journey from social work to empowering wome...
How to Run Ads on Instagram in 2025 (for Course Creators and Coaches)
14 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Hey there, Course Creators! Today, I share how to create impactful Instagram ads for 2025, focusing on two methods to launch an ad using existing high...
Website Design Strategies That Convert Visitors Into Customers With Krissy Chin & Claire VanBemmelen
12 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Krissy and Claire are back to share expert tips on making websites that work really well. They focus on the importance of strategy over design, explai...
How Two Sisters Built a Successful Website Design Business Featuring Krissy Chin & Claire VanBemmelen
10 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Krissy, an author and business strategist, and Claire, a brand and website designer, are the sister duo behind the success of KNC Creative. They start...
What a Sales Copywriter Taught Me About My Low-Ticket Offer Sales Page
07 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Let’s talk about some great tips I’ve picked up from my chat with a Sales Copywriter while working on my sales page. Cut your...
Getting less than 100 downloads per episode? DO THIS. Featuring Justin Schenck
05 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Justin Schenck is back to share powerful insights on growing your podcast by focusing on building a strong brand, instead of just marketing. He discus...
Behind the Scenes with a Top Rated Podcast Host & Speaker Featuring Justin Schenck
03 Feb 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Justin Schenck is an entrepreneur, speaker and the host of the top rated podcast the Growth Now Movement. Justin opens up about transforming his podca...
The Power of Having Multiple Ads Strategies in your Back Pocket
31 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Just like wearing extra layers for cold weather, it's smart to keep several ad strategies ready for use. Today, I talk about the importance of ad...
A Candid Chat About Email Marketing Strategy with Brittni Schroeder
29 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Brittni Schroeder joins us again to talk about scaling businesses through effective automation and funnel strategies. She shares how her experiences i...
6-Figures as a Business Coach & Marketing Strategist Featuring Brittni Schroeder
27 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Brittni Schroeder is a business coach and marketing strategist who guides coaches to automate their businesses, establish systems, develop effective f...
How Small Copy Tweaks Can Transform Ad Results
24 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Let's talk about how you can make your ads work better without having to rewrite everything. Sometimes, all you need is to change the first few l...
Secure Paid Partnerships and Grow Your Revenue with Justin Moore
22 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Justin Moore, founder of Creator Wizard, shares how you can secure brand sponsorships effectively in his new book, "Sponsor Magnet." Aiming ...
Making 6-Figures Teaching Creators How to Get Sponsorships Featuring Justin Moore
20 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Justin Moore, sponsorship coach and founder of Creator Wizard, shares his journey from a corporate job to pioneering in the brand partnership space. H...
Telltale Signs Facebook & Instagram Ads Could Grow Your Business
17 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
It's 2025! Let's talk about the signs that Meta ads could work well for your business. Cut your lead gen costs in HALF ...
Reach Empowered Buyers and Sell More Even in a Saturated Market Featuring Lindsay Burgess
15 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
We are back with Lindsay Burgess, a leader in marketing and behavioral psychology, where she breaks down how shifting focus from problem-aware to solu...
Six Figures as a Behavioral Psychology & Content Marketing Coach Featuring Lindsay Burgess
13 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Lindsay Burgess, an expert in behavioral psychology and content marketing, introduces her unique Empowered Buyer Funnel and talks about her return to ...
Marketer's Secrets To Turning Every Lead Into A Paid Lead
10 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
I’m excited to share a behind-the-scenes look at a recent collaboration where I joined forces with four dynamic professionals that serve course crea...
Money First: How to Make Sure Your Marketing Does its Job to Grow Your Sales With Frenchie Ferenczi
08 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Frenchie Ferenczi joins us again to share her expert insights on making your marketing strategies work harder for your sales. With a track record of s...
Six Figures Helping Founders, Creatives, and Business Leaders Increase Revenue & Impact featuring Frenchie Ferenczi
06 Jan 2025
Contributed by Lukas
Meet Frenchie Ferenczi, a seasoned business consultant who helps founders, creatives, and business leaders boost their revenue and impact. She has exp...