The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Knicks Title, "Whaddya Do?" NBA Teams, the QB Pyramid, and a CFB Playoff Primer With Zach Lowe and Todd McShay
17 Dec 2025
Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I had new rewatchables that went up on Monday. We did High Fidelity 25 years ago. and a couple months after it was released. Four-person podcast that included the hottest take in the history of the rewatchables from Rob Mahoney. I won't spoil it to you, but it almost caused Chris Ryan and I to convulse. So you have that.
And guess what? There's gonna be another rewatchables because we are recording, I'm recording this on Tuesday night, we are recording another rewatchables tomorrow to pay tribute to Rob Reiner. We've done six Rob Reiner rewatchable movies And one of the ones we hadn't done was The Sure Thing, which is really not available on streaming, but you can find it if you get a little creative.
But we're going to do The Sure Thing. We're going to put that up on Wednesday night as a special bonus edition because we loved Rob Reiner and everybody is really sad out here in Los Angeles. So we were doing The Sure Thing. It's an awesome show. Awesome movie. I actually forgot how much I love this movie. So we're going to be talking about it in detail.
And we're going to talk about Rob's great career and a whole bunch of things. It's just going to be me and Chris Ryan. So stay tuned for that on Wednesday night. And then on Thursday on HBO, third installment of our Music Box series. It's Counting Crows documentary, Have You Seen Me Lately? It's directed by Amy Scott. And it's really, really good.
And I would highly recommend, especially if you like 90s music, if you'd like Cannon Crows at all, this is a really good one. So that is going to be Thursday night. And then I'll have another podcast on Thursday as well. So that's the game plan for this week. Coming up. Zach Lowe, right after NBA Cup, the Knicks beat the Spurs. We talked about that. We talked about what do you do teams.
We talked about the Mets, whole bunch of things. And then Todd McShay joined us as well because we had to talk NFL quarterbacks. We had to talk about the college football playoffs. We had to talk about Mendoza being the number one guy. This is a really good podcast. I don't know what to tell you. Sometimes we just have really good ones. This is another one.
We take a break, Pearl Jam, then Sackler. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up. but only one is stopping a touchdown.
You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to getting help you need. State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. 8.09 Pacific time. Zach Lowe staying up late on the East Coast because the Knicks have just won their first championship since 1973. Just like that.
You're going in just like that.
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Chapter 2: What are the key takeaways from the Knicks' championship win?
But yeah, it's really it's really the Knicks and the Pistons and kind of everybody else right now. And the Spurs thing is interesting because that's been the hot question since they beat the Thunder is are they a contender? And I think people kind of don't know what to do with the term contender. I hear contender, and I think would not really surprise me if they won the championship.
Michael Pena kind of described them as an under-the-radar contender. What does that mean? Conference finals would not be a surprise. You said dark, dark, dark horse. I'm not ready to put them... in the same circle as the Thunder and the Nuggets and whoever wins the East by default. But they're right there in the next tier.
Maybe with the Rockets, I think I'd put the Rockets a little ahead of them. But if you told me they're in the same, you know, universe as the Rockets, I would say, yeah, I mean, they've earned that.
Yeah, they're fourth in a four-man West race for who could make the finals. But... You got to take them seriously because they have a top six guy in the league who I assume will be playing more minutes. They hit the jackpot with Castle. They hit the jackpot with Harper.
These guards are unbelievable, man.
I was going to do this later, but I'll just throw this to you now because I was really thinking about this on Saturday night watching OKC and the Spurs. It rarely happened. Like we've had contenders, we've had more and teams that seemed unstoppable. Like the 2017 Warriors is a good example where we're like, oh no, hold on.
But that was a team of guys that in the prime, guys that had been in the league for a while. It rarely happens when you have a young team With guys that, for the most part, except for maybe one guy on the team, aren't even close to who they're going to be yet. But they gave you that hold down feeling.
And I actually went through all the seasons going back to the merger, trying to figure out how many times.
Nobody goes back to the merger like Bill Simmons.
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Chapter 3: How do the Knicks compare with other teams in the East?
We already had to ban teams from like, you can't trade picks anymore. You've traded too many picks.
You're banned for trading picks. It's like, why not? I love that he has no answer for the Rozier trade. It was my favorite in the press conference.
I didn't see the question. What was the question?
The question was basically, are you close to resolution? Mark Stein had this. I tweeted about it. It was, hold on. Oh, yeah. Adam Stein tweeted this. Adam Silver says in Las Vegas, quote, there's no obvious solution here to the trade status of Miami's Terry Rozier and calls it, quote, unprecedented. I mean, there is an obvious solution. He's the commissioner. He could just make a solution.
Either waive the pick or make it so that you can trade the contract, even though the guy's being investigated. But you can't not do anything. But story for another time. Story for another time. So, Flag, Harper, Kahn, Queen, Coward. You love this draft class. Edgecombe. Edgecombe. There's a couple other good ones. Let's talk Knicks, because we weren't fair.
We didn't talk about the Knicks enough, and that was a big win for them. When they have their five... And let's say we know they're going to have their five for four rounds, plus Robinson, plus Clarkson, Yabasele at some point, Kolek. Let's say they have their nine, they don't have any injuries. Is that a team that you think could actually beat whoever comes out of the West?
I would say no. I mean, look, once you get to the finals, obviously you're a break, an injury, an ankle sprain, a wild occurrence, a flake or a foul suspension, something like that, away from you're in the game. But I would pick the top three teams in the West. Denver, Houston, Oklahoma city over the Knicks for sure. And I think it's, I think it's not, I don't think it's their five.
I think it's their six. I think Robinson start come off the bench, whatever, like he's that important to their team where they have these six starters. And I do think they're going to sniff around for one other guy in It's hard for them to do it because of how close they are to the second apron. But I think they're going to sniff around for one other bench guy because Clarkson's been up and down.
Yabusele didn't even play tonight. Shamit, you know, every time he seems to cement a role in somebody's rotation, something happens and he doesn't have a role in the rotation anymore. So I think they'll sniff around. But look, everyone's got a puncher's chance in the finals, but they'd be a huge underdog over against any of those teams, I think.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of the Knicks' roster for future playoffs?
Do you try to get Sabonis back for LaMelo?
I don't care. With apologies to DeMontis Sabonis, who's tremendous. If from this, I mean, we're like in crazy town now, like the Hornets and the Kings talking about a deal with Sabonis and LaBella Ball. We've gone full on into crazyville.
But if I'm, with all due respect to the Kings players, the only thing I want to, I really want out of the Kings in this theoretical crazy town trade is draft picks attached to the Sacramento Kings with no protections on them, aka the most golden of gold chips in the NBA.
So you're saying LaMelo for contracts and give us some of your picks.
Yeah, just trick the Kings into thinking that they're the ones who are going to bring out all this potential in LaMelo Ball. Trick them into saying, use all the social media data I've got about how this is going to revolutionize, get the fans who are so just done with this Kings team, get young fans back in the seats. He likes cowbells, just whatever stupid sales pitches I can come up with.
So it's like a, yeah, we'll take Schroeder and we'll take Malik Monk. Take one more contract and we'll take your first rounder this year. And how about a swap three years from now? And what about like your 2033 first? So that's not you. That's like seven years from now. Yeah. What do you think?
Can you just put that in there? Vivek, you'll have been chased out of town by a mob with pitchforks by then. You don't care about that pick, right? Yeah, right.
All right. I'm glad we talked that out. I kind of like the idea of Harden. Yeah, I liked it more than you. So you think Harden would just go to Charlotte and just pack it in? I think he'd kind of like living down there. Great. What does it do for me? What does it do for my whole... What does it do for anybody? I'm just trying to get out of LaMelo before the stock drops.
I mean, case in point, the John Morant stock dropping and the Trae Young stock dropping, right? There's an inflection point where all of a sudden... you don't have the asset in the same way, which brings us to the Grizzlies. Okay. John Moran.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of Giannis' potential trade?
Mitchell, nine in some order.
Where'd you have the heart of the Celtics, Jalen Brown? 12. I had him 12 as well. All right. Sounds like we were aligned. Oh, last one. Jalen Johnson? At him 20.
And there's a case that he could be, I think 16 is probably his ceiling. But if you wanted to say based on his recent play that you have him over some of the guys I have in the 16 to 21 range, which is Booker, Towns, Siakam, guys like that, I'd be fine with that.
He's been jumping out of the TV this year and we didn't talk about Atlanta and I'm sure Atlanta is going to do something, especially with the Porzingis contract that is now an expiring. They have a giant trade exception and they should make a move when there's a spot open in these finals right now. I feel like next to the Knicks.
Chapter 6: How do the Knicks and Hawks compare in the current NBA landscape?
I want to sit and do something. It's the one Giannis team that could happen. It's the one Davis team that could happen. It's the one name of star team that could happen. I think if it's either a big guy, um, Any sort of more reliable guard or slash swing? I don't know if they are ready to get rid of Trey yet. I don't know if you've heard on that.
I think for the right price, for sure. Not for sure, but I think they would. I'm glad you brought Giannis back up because before you said there's no Giannis trade and the top of the West teams are out.
And I, I generally, I mean, I said on my pod yesterday or Monday that I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a summer thing after all, like we all thought it was going to be before the season when he, you know, when they signed Thanasis and he sort of recommitted publicly for the year. That's my bet. Summer. I would bet that way, too. But there's a couple of wild cards.
Number one is Atlanta. And number two is... And now there's all this noise. Is Milwaukee going to try to buy to placate Giannis one last time or just try to save the season? Where do they have two contracts? I don't know. Agreed. But the other wild card is like, he's out for a few more weeks. What if they're like one in 12 in their next 13 games?
And it's just, the season is, is over, over for them. Like I, the wild card is always that. Plus he finally comes out and says it's time. And then I think anything's possible other than that, other than Spurs rockets, you know, whatever. Right.
You know, the problem is not having their pick makes this so much more complicated.
Again, it's why I can't rule out the teams. I mean, Atlanta's got Milwaukee stuff. Portland is not going to trade for Giannis, but they've got Milwaukee stuff and would work their way, I think, into some kind of trade. Like, it's why I can't close the door completely.
All right. Have you closed the door in the 2026 Mets yet?
No. I'm not happy. Not happy, but, you know, baseball, there's a lot of offseason left to go. I'm a little sad still. You know what I'm tired of? I'm tired of Instagram tributes to guys you couldn't even bother making a contract offer for. How about if you don't make a contract offer to the all-time home run hitter on your franchise?
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Chapter 7: What factors influence the college football playoff rankings?
I paid for this, by the way. This is not a paid advertisement. This is my favorite movie in the last 30 years.
It's a great one. It's a great one to be watching on the night that your 10-year-old daughter walks out and has to go to the bathroom in the middle of the movie and is like, hey, what's... What are mommy and daddy watching right now?
Yeah, and you have a violence-free house too. Though you won't watch any TV shows, movies that cross the line in any way, right?
I mean, I will. Everybody has to be gone? Yeah. I mean, for like, you know,
I did have an idea for you because as everybody knows, you're Team Croatia with the World Cup coming. That's right, baby. And they're playing England, Chris Ryan's team. I think you guys should start feuding now. Like really build it up WrestleMania style. Like let's get some angles, some bad blood.
It always works out great for England in the World Cup.
Yeah, let's go. That's what I'm talking about.
Throw some darts. Does he want to talk about the 2018 semifinals at all? Or, you know, I don't know.
See, let's go.
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Chapter 8: How does the quarterback draft class compare to previous years?
And his last day, the graduation, I had to go. It was game four of the 2022 Warriors Celtics finals. Oh boy. Which ended up becoming the Steph Curry game. Yep. So I knew if I stayed in LA, I knew, I know I have these powers. I knew the Celtics were probably going to lose. I had that on my conscience.
And then not only did they lose, but it turned out to be the most important game of Steph Curry's career. And I'm kind of glad I wasn't there as the years pass. Because as you know, he's my favorite non Celtic. So watching my favorite non Celtic murder my team, I probably think I'd still be in my seat. And it would have made me not like Steph Curry.
So in a way, maybe it was good that I wasn't there.
I don't think it would have. I was there. It was amazing. And I think you would have done a hat tip, a mental hat tip and just gone and had a drink somewhere.
It's crazy how much he needed it as the years passed now. Where if that doesn't happen, there's a lot of yeah, but with his career. And that just took away the yeah, but. There's no yeah, but for him now. It's like Kobe in 2009. Same thing. It's going to be the yeah, but. No more yeah, but. Fuck you.
It's a fun and weird championship. And sure, people would have nitpicked the how many did he win before the Durant cap spike thing. But he's averaging 30 points a game. right now for the Warriors. I know. It's like, I'm cool with Steph either way at this point.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how many more years he can be this good. Because there'll be moments during these games now where he just looks exhausted. Those two games, the recent two when he was exploding, they'll cut to him in the fourth quarter and he's just like... he he's almost like exasperated how hard his job is, but he knows he still knows he's great at it.
I just don't know how sustainable that is. We'll see. They certainly don't make it easy for him.
No.
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