The Bill Simmons Podcast
Most Surprising NBA Player Leaps With Tim Legler, Plus NFL Holiday Picks With Joe House
23 Dec 2025
Chapter 1: What recent movies did Bill Simmons discuss on the podcast?
The Bill Simmons Podcast presented by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables episode on Monday night. It was me and Ben Latham and Chris Ryan talking about F1. A 2025 movie that we did in 2025. Second one of the year. We also did Sinners earlier in the year.
I think there's only five movies we've done in the same year they came out in the nine-year history of the rewatchable. So we did Get Out. We did Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. We did Top Gun Maverick. There might have been one other one. So this is the fifth of the sixth one. But I really love F1. I think it's a great sports movie. And it's a genre that has...
increasingly not churned out like the high, high end sports movies. I was thinking about this cause any given Sunday was on Pluto. Yeah. Um, yeah, I was checking out Pluto. I'm not going to apologize. Any given Sunday was on.
And I was thinking about that incredible run of late nineties, basically like from 94 all the way through the late nineties into the early two thousands when just like awesome iconic sports movies. And we're just not making them in the, uh, in the same way anymore. If we make them, they're either small scale or we've run out of ideas for them.
I don't know what's going on, but anyway, really enjoyed F1, enjoyed Brad Pitt, enjoyed, uh, everything. I'm not even a race racing guy, but, uh, we covered all the angles in that one. Uh, you can check out the, obviously with Christmas on Thursday, we're scaling back big time on the content on the ringer this week, but, um, This is the last podcast for this week.
You can check out all of our other podcasts that we have because everybody went at least once, I think. So we'll have enough to keep you warm over the holidays. Anyway, coming up on this podcast, Tim Legler. We had a lot of NBA stuff to cover. He hasn't been on in a few weeks.
And we spent a little time talking about contenders, but a lot of time talking about players that have gone up a level this season. I also threw my Celtics theory at him that I have about this season that I came up with last night. So he's on, and then Joe House is back to do Ringer 107 with me. Ringer 107's been in shambles.
Basically looking at the playoffs at this point, hoping we can turn it around. But some fun games to talk about. So basketball, then football. That's the podcast. We'll take a break. Bring in Pearl Jam. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm.
It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to getting help you need. State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
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Chapter 2: What are the key themes in the NBA discussion with Tim Legler?
Yeah, the four I had that I just don't know. Boston, who's 33-1 to win the title right now. The Lakers, 22-1. The Cavs, 21. Orlando, 35-1. And I think the Cavs and Orlando is a classic, let's wait and see here, two months. I'm more concerned for the Cavs than Orlando.
And I think with the Cavs, they've only had their top four and four of the 29 games, but there's a general malaise and there's just red flags going off.
Chapter 3: How does Bill Simmons view the Celtics' performance this season?
Plus the fact that they can't fix their roster. Orlando, we kind of know we have, they fit in Bain, you know, they're, they're going to get healthier as the year goes along. And I just, I think they're a safer bet, but I mean, the Cavs, can you figure it out at all? What's going on?
And I think to answer your question, the criteria I use when you hear the word contender for me is, can you realistically see this team like either in the Western Conference, that would mean in the conference finals.
Yes.
And if you're in the East, can you realistically see them in the NBA finals? Like, I think that's the question. And that's why for me, what I've seen out of Cleveland is really disturbing. Now, I know that they've had health issues like a lot of teams, but There's something, there's a flatness about them and a lack of defensive presence that concerns me.
I think Orlando, for the most part, has a toughness that they play with most nights. They haven't been healthy either. They missed Ben Caro for a while, comes back. Now you don't have Wagner. Bain struggled big time early. I think he was almost like, yeah, new place. It's always weird for a guy that's like a high volume shot taker, kind of trying to fit into this team. He's found his stride.
So he's answered a lot of what they needed from a year ago. They just haven't had their top guys on the court for any sustained stretch with Wagner and Bankero. Last year included till the second half of the year. So I'm actually thinking they've got a run in them.
Cleveland could say that too. The difference is Orlando seems to have fight regardless of who's out there or not. And Cleveland, it comes and goes. And that's the part that's concerning.
And I think I would differentiate the two of them this way. Here's why I would put them in different categories. Relative to what I thought their ceiling was and what I saw out of them last year, I think Orlando's closer to that. They got a better chance to hit that. Cleveland is not the same. They were absolutely unstoppable offensively last year.
And the Knights this year, when their offense has clicked, their defense hasn't been close to good enough. And I don't know...
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Chapter 4: What insights does Tim Legler provide about the NBA contenders?
I will tell you this. In the years that I've played in the league and all the years I've covered the league, I saw guys get thrown out of huddles. I saw guys get thrown off the bench and sent to the locker room. I saw guys get thrown out of practice. I never saw a guy by his own volition get up and walk to the locker room. during the game. And so at the time, you're not sure. You can't tell.
Did Kerr throw him out of the huddle? And then you find out Kerr says no. And Draymond said the same thing. And then you know it's true because later Kerr was asked, well, when he came back to the bench early fourth quarter, whenever it was, were you going to put him back in the game? He said, no, absolutely not. It was the quickest answer. No. He left the team. He left the huddle.
He went to the locker room. No, he was not going back in the game. I personally... Haven't seen it. Now, maybe it has happened. I don't know of a time that it happened. Certainly not when my eyeballs saw it. That to me is pretty big. That's a pretty big thing.
You walk away from the team in a five point game, you know, when your team's a 500 team, like every one of these matter and you just get up and leave. Because you say, oh, I just thought it'd be better for a cool down and kind of separate myself from the situation. It's really kind of uncharted territory in a lot of ways. You don't see this.
And that's why I'm curious to see what the does this move the needle at all for them when you combine it with some of his offensive issues he's had this year, which is a low point for him in his career.
Yeah.
Combined with this stuff. And are the dividends with the winning and the leadership and the defense, is all that stuff still outweighing all of that? Because there was a time that no matter what the offense was, it was like good enough. And the emotional outburst like, okay, because he was giving you world-class playmaking IQ and defense.
Now you go, is that stuff still on that level to offset the offense plus this? And I think it's probably right about that point where it's, it's, it feels like almost a wash. So like, what would they do? I still doubt they would ever do it. I never move them, but I think they would.
I think they would. And if I'm another team, like the reason this initially came up was we're talking about the Lakers, right? A team that when they put their best three guys together, have a lot of trouble on defense and the net ratings with LeBron and Reeves and Luca together just hasn't been good. It makes sense. You've three of the five guys you have out there and their defensive liabilities.
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Chapter 5: What insights are shared about Michael Porter Jr.'s potential trade value?
Like this guy now is like... Because I think people thought, okay... I kind of knew what Michael Porter was. The fact that he can do this offensively, even though it's a team that's not winning a lot of games, I do think now there's probably more teams that would look at him that are sort of those middle-of-the-road playoff teams and go, man, that would be nice to add that kind of scoring punch.
The question always gets back to what are you willing to give up for him? Right.
I was thinking Milwaukee with him because I know Doc likes him. And Doc was coming on my podcast. He always thought Porter was underrated for Denver. He liked that he rebounded. All right. So apologies to not mentioning Tyrese Maxey. Sorry. You asked, how do we decide most improved player? I just wanted to cover this quick.
Because I don't think Avdi is eligible for me, even though he's one of the favorites. Here's why. He did this for the last two months of last season. We already saw this. And it was the same reason I didn't vote for Cade last year was a different reason, which is like, well, Cade was the first pick in the draft.
He's supposed to get better every year, which is, I think, the case for Maxie not being in there. I don't really know how we decide this. And it seems like it's up to the voter and we both have votes. But I feel like Porter... could potentially be in this most improved player thing, right? It's like, well, look at it. He's really improved.
It's like, is he, he just got more shots, more higher usage rate. He's on a team that needs him. Um, if you went from not playing to playing, um, Like Gillespie? I'm not sure that counts either. So what is the criteria? What's the number one thing for you?
So for me, guys fall into different categories with this. And it all depends on what you prioritize the most. Like I hear what you're pointing about Avdi. Maybe you say the same thing about Jalen Johnson. Because he showed you some of this last year. And you're kind of like, okay.
Here's what it really comes down to, Bill, because for some of these guys, it's not really that they're improved that much in terms of their game. It's really, the word should be for some of these guys, most improved opportunity. Because that's what's changed for Michael Porter Jr.,
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Chapter 6: What factors determine a player's eligibility for the Most Improved Player award?
That's what's changed for AJ Mitchell, who is a guy that's probably going to get a lot of votes for this award because he was not really on your radar with the thunder last year. And now he's a major component and will be all year. This guy's going to play 20 plus minutes all post season for this team.
Can you improve from not playing at all to playing? I'm going to say no.
What do you mean by that? Are you saying you're not, you don't think a guy that was just like hanging on to an NBA career, uh, To now being a guy like Gillespie, for instance, why would he be disqualified?
I'm not saying disqualified. I'm just saying when I think about this in my head, it should almost be a separate award that they should call the, where the fuck did you come from award? And it's like, oh, this year it's Colin Gillespie. Where'd you come from? What happened? Maybe they should name it that. That should just be a different award. I look at, so when I think of this award,
I look at Jalen Duren who right now in FanDuel has the fourth best odds plus 700. I look at him like he had the exact same minutes last year. They needed the exact same things from him last year, but I'm watching him this year and he's a different guy, right? He's, he's just went up a level. He is now whoever, whatever center he's going against. I feel like he's toe to toe.
They can run offense with him. Um, at the end of games with him and Cade and it's kind of devastating, um, his, his personality has evolved where he's like this real leader and kind of, kind of intimidating presence. And I just, I don't think he was that way last year in the same way.
So to me, that's the kind of guy I'm looking at for a candidate, but you could also say like Jalen Johnson is now one of the 15 best players in the league. He should win.
Yeah, no, I agree. So that's, for me, the first thing I'm going to ask myself is, have they gone to a completely different shelf in the hierarchy in the league? So that's the first thing. And some people might, for some of these guys, say, well, yeah, but if you really then go deep dive into what they were doing last year, you're going to realize, no, they really aren't.
They've already shown you this. Now they're doing it consistently more often maybe.
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Chapter 7: How do the Celtics compare to last year's Pacers according to the hosts?
And so that would maybe be what people are looking for. I wrote down 10 guys without really, really, really diving in, like just off the top of my head, going down the league. And I'm going to blow through them real quick because we've covered a lot of them today. Yeah. but there's a few others we haven't yet.
So I have Jalen Johnson written down as a guy that's probably going to get consideration for this. AJ Mitchell, Reed Shepard should, because Reed Shepard got an opportunity last year as the third pick of the draft. Like you're going to give that guy an opportunity. He didn't look quite ready for it.
Um, I think that, but that goes into like when, if you're a second year guy, you should be better than you were as a first year. That's where I got confused with this award. It's like, I would expect you to be better this year. You've been in league for a year too.
That's a very good point. And that's why a lot of people will exclude guys from this. Um, I look at him and go, He's so much better than he was, though, because last year he didn't look sure of himself. And the opportunity was there for him to grab the backup point guard minutes for that team. They wanted him to get it. He wasn't ready. And you know what I will say?
When I met with Imei Udoka halfway through the season, I called a Rockets game. At that point, Reed Shepard was pretty much out of the rotation. And he had so many glowingly positive things to say about him that I knew he was going to be okay.
Like you can tell when a coach, you ask about a young player and it's like, you can just tell by their response, even if they don't say it, you can just kind of tell that they don't believe this guy's going to turn. He did not give me that indication. So I, that made me think this guy's going to be fine. Like there's something they're seeing that is not translated to the games yet.
Now he's done it six times last year, double figures all season. He's done it 18 times.
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Chapter 8: What are the key NFL holiday picks discussed in this segment?
So there you go. But you're making a good point.
All right. So who else did you have on the list? Sit through it.
Colin Gillespie, I think, has to be in there. Avdi, I mentioned. Jalen Dern, I have on this list, you mentioned. We talked about Alex Saar. I think he could be a guy. These next few, I think, are really interesting ones. Nikhil Alexander-Walker. Look at what he has done with an increased opportunity to score the ball in Atlanta that he didn't get Minnesota.
Minnesota was guard the ball, one of the best on-ball defenders, pressure up the floor, loved you for that. On those nights you made shots, great. But we don't really need you to do that. It's not a big deal. You're not judged by that. Now he goes to Atlanta and all of a sudden it's like a different type of offense. Trey Young's not out there. And this dude's getting 20 regularly.
Like him and Jalen Johnson are getting 50 points combined like a lot of nights. I put him down. Ryan Rollins from Milwaukee was a guy that I thought probably deserves some of this because he looks really natural as a lead guard for them with an increased opportunity. And then Keontae George was the last one I wrote down in Utah. Now here's the thing about him. His efficiency isn't much different.
He's just taking higher volume, but the guy had like four 30-point games in a five-game stretch.
You catch him on the right night, and it looks like he's going to be a five-time All-Star.
Man, a dude's got talent. He oozes talent. I think he drives them crazy a little bit with some of his decision-making, but the guy's got massive talent, and they're better than they were. At least they're trying to win games now a little bit more often. So I've noticed him a little bit more than I did a year ago. So that was like my 10-guy list. That's a good list.
Can I add one more? Sure. Kevin Love has done anything for the last four years. 16 rebounds the other night. Let's throw him back on. There you go. Any other late 30s guy won the award? This Christmas Day Fan Duel is letting you once again. Pass the leg to your families and friends with a fun new way to bet.
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