The Bill Simmons Podcast
NBA Panic Teams, Best QBs Ever, and Sorry Seattle With Rob Mahoney, Chris Russo, and Danny Kelly
21 Jan 2026
Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I have two rewatchables this week. We put one up already on Monday night. We did just one of the guys, a 1980s HBO classic. We did with Kyle Brandt and Joanne Robinson. I had a lot of fun. It's been on the list for years.
We are moving rewatchables from video from YouTube to Netflix next week. You will still be able to watch it on Spotify as well and get it as a podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, but the video will be on Spotify. And then starting on Monday. with Netflix. So we are doing one more before we do that on Wednesday night.
It is going to be another 48 hours, the Eddie Murphy, Nick Nolte sequel, controversial sequel. I have a lot of thoughts, but it's me, Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. So that's coming Wednesday night and then coming next Monday on Netflix, because we're going to try to, at least for the first few weeks, do movies that are also on Netflix.
We're going to be doing Zodiac, which is a movie we did, I think, the first year of the feed. We didn't have all the categories. The pod was under an hour. I wasn't on it. So Zodiac will be on Monday night on the Rewatchables feed, and also the video will be on Netflix. So you can watch the movie on Netflix anytime over the next five days.
Speaking of Rewatchables, so I mentioned how there's a Bill Simmons podcast live in Los Angeles on February 11th. And you can get it's at the Wiltern ringer.com slash events. There might be a couple of tickets left. Uh, I'm not positive, but I'm just warning you now. It is a Bill Simmons podcast, but a rewatchables will be breaking out during this podcast.
I think I'm allowed to do that since I host both shows, but, um, there's just heavy rumors right now about a Michael Mann movie and maybe even a Michael Mann movie that we've already done. And that it's going to be me and Chris Ryan and Van Lathan. Just heavy rumors. I can't confirm. Can't confirm them yet. But there's a lot of buzz. We'll see if Shams Charani reports on it.
But so, yeah, it's a Bill Simmons podcast live. We might even do a little NBA at the top for about 15 minutes because NBA All-Star Weekend is going to be hitting that weekend. but there might be a rewatchables breaking out. So I'm just telling you now.
Anyway, coming up on this podcast, second one of the week, we're going to talk to Rob Mahoney about what the hell do you do, NBA teams, especially with the Warriors losing Jimmy Butler last night. So we're going to hit a few teams there.
the legend, the Mad Dog, Chris Russo, is going to come on to talk about Josh Allen, Hall of Fame quarterbacks, and just what happens if you fall short in the playoffs over and over again. How do we think about you? And then last but not least, I made a mistake on Sunday's podcast. I'm going to hash it out with the ringers, Danny Kelly. And we're going to talk about the Seahawks and the NFL. So...
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Chapter 2: How does Jimmy Butler's injury impact the Warriors' season?
Yep.
Not dealing Kamingo when they could have. I think I'm going to count.
Which times?
Well, out of the many times, but especially like two plus years ago, like they, I think could have gotten Caruso for him. I think it was that level of, like he was at that Josh Giddey trade value level. They just didn't pull the trigger. And then the ACL last year, you could flip it and say they had so much good luck. Sure. From 09 to from, from Minnesota passing on Curry twice.
right to clay falling down in the draft where they did the cap spike dream on in the second round all these things that happened the bucks having a choice between monta ellis and curry and picking monta ellis and the boga trade that's a real thing that happened so you could argue they used up maybe all their luck after the cap spike
I don't know. Maybe so. I mean, it's still like so much of what goes wrong with the Warriors has nothing to do with Steph not living up to his job, right? He still elevates everyone around him. He still makes this team incredibly functional despite the fact that they don't have anything resembling traditional shot creation, right? Like he is the engine that makes it all make any modicum of sense.
And there's just only so much you can... You can only do that for so long. And I think we've gotten used to having the conversation about, oh, he's doing this at this age. Isn't this remarkable? It still is. It's just everything around him has to bear some load, right? Like it has to carry some of the weight for the team. And increasingly, Draymond can only do so much.
And even Jimmy Butler could only do so much. And even D'Anthony Melton is unavailable every third game. And he's one of their most reliable players at this point. So he just needed a little more at basically every step.
And if any one of those things you mentioned goes a little differently, if Moses Moody is 40% better as a player, 30% better as a player than he is, maybe Golden State's entire trajectory looks totally different.
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Chapter 3: What are potential trade options for the Warriors?
I think where you and I are different is like, For everything that Towns has done and not done and as frustrating as he's been, especially over the last couple of weeks, I'm not operating from the mindset of like, we have to get out of the Carl Towns business, right? Like I'm open to any Towns trade.
Certainly like an Anthony Davis one, I think might be more appealing, especially if like your medical staff believes that he might be back in five to six weeks, right? That it might be a non-surgical recovery for him. That's something that would be really interesting to me.
But like, I wouldn't do it if I don't know if he's coming back this year.
I think that's where I have moved on the Knicks. If you asked me a month ago, should they even consider trading for somebody who has a serious injury and might come back? I would have said, obviously not. They're so well positioned in the East. They're talented enough. I'm going to trust them to figure it out. I no longer trust this team to figure it out.
I think they need to consider some pretty dramatic changes. They don't necessarily have to be towns-oriented, but he's the natural guy you look at.
Yeah, and it's weird because... That whole identity matched a lot of what we're watching with some of the successful teams this year. Like that overachieving underdog, scrappy. That's who they were two years ago. That's who it felt like they were at times last year. And now they feel like just your classic... everybody's making a ton of money on an NBA team.
I thought this was going to go better. We've seen this happen for the last 40 years with certain teams. I don't know what the answer is with having Towns and Brunson at the same time. And I think back to that Celtics series, which was the best series they won in the last two years with Brunson.
And the Celtics just, we were saying as it was happening, it was one of the dumbest offensive game plans. The way they played them was the one way that was great for the Knicks defensively. It's like, we're just going to launch threes. It was like the Knicks were like, great. That sounds awesome. Please keep doing that. And they, uh, they were able to scrap and win.
But, um, I do wonder Brunson and towns together, how sustainable that is. All right. Yeah. Next one. Speaking of the Celtics, the Tatum's back Celtics. We can do this quick because I've talked about the Celts a lot. It's a weird team, but they do have Tatum coming back as the quote-unquote trade deadline move.
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Chapter 4: What strategies should the Warriors consider moving forward?
Yeah, and the style that they play is different with even how they use the two bigs to set picks, how much runs through the guards compared to how much ran through Tatum last year. So it is... It's going to be fascinating, but people really like the Celtics team and people are also really excited that Jason Tatum might come back.
And it feels like if you have a great coach or a really good coach, and I think that Missoula has been really good and a good organization that doesn't want to rush them back, that trust, you've got to come back. Like this team, I think is pretty realistic, but it's definitely a, what are we going to do? Yeah. Orlando just quickly. So they're 23 and 19.
Every time I become intrigued by them or think maybe something will happen, they just suck in a game. They've got some bad losses. The last one they had, though, getting killed by Memphis and London or whoever the hell they played that game. I guess the thing I keep coming back to, Rob, is... I think we're halfway through the season. There's some really good advanced stats now.
There's good sample sizes. There's good five-man lineup stuff now. There's even good last 20 games where you can look at a team like the Clippers and be like, throw out the record, look at the last 20. Carter, Suggs, Bain, Palo, and Franz is plus 18 per 100. So even though I'm 23-19, I've had some weird injuries. I'm just looking at that and going, you know what? We can make a run.
We could beat Dallas two years ago. Let's just trust the process, right? Is that fair?
Totally. I mean, maybe that's a lofty ambition for them, but it is what they should at least think about embracing, right? And I think they've been a different team when Jalen Suggs has been healthy. They've been... Certainly, they've opened my eyes just with the Anthony Black emergence. The wild card of him, yeah. Oh my God, he's been incredible. Yeah.
So as far as navigating the deadline goes, I don't think they should do anything dramatic. I want to see the healthiest version of Suggs and Paolo and Franz and Bane in particular. And now adding Anthony Black to that mix in some capacity, I want to give them a shot to show something and to prove something. And I think they've earned that. you can still show up around the edges a little bit.
And I think you can maybe find another backup guard who can give you something a little more than what they've gotten from Tyus Jones, who has been muted at best and kind of riding the bench at worst. I'm eyeing Ayu Dsoumou in Chicago. Is that a guy that's priable? Someone who's an energy defender who's hitting like 45% of his threes this season. Could that be an option?
You know, the Anthony Simon stuff has always been out there. Is there like a mutually beneficial Simon's Goga Batase-oriented deal that gets Boston to back up big and gets Orlando some shooting? I don't even know. But that's kind of where I'd be looking is like that fourth guard spot, basically. I think there's some room for Orlando to do something.
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Chapter 5: What criteria do we use to rank all-time great quarterbacks?
It's only going to be Montana. You're going to, you know, you got, you got probably put your dad is in there. If you want to start with his era, quote unquote, um, you know, obviously I put my homes in and he's won three Superbowls. So that's four right there. Right. And so before you even begin, that is four. Then you got those next six or seven slots, you know, Manning,
And Staubach won two titles. So you got Staubach up there.
Okay.
Yeah, Staubach's up there. He's an all-time great. Lee Corso once told me, and he was at Maryland as an assistant coach and played against Unitas. And when he was at Florida State, Unitas was at Louisville, said that Staubach was the best college player we ever saw.
Chapter 6: How do championships impact a quarterback's legacy?
Wow.
So you got to keep that in mind too. And obviously saw back one to two titles. He got floored by the concussion. So he retired a little early, but I love him. You know, certainly, um, You know, Elway, you got to consider Elway. You got to also figure out what you're going to do with the championships, Bill. Is that a prerequisite? If it is a prerequisite, well, you got to win a Super Bowl.
Well, if that's the case, then, you know, you're in a tricky spot with Marino. We lose Marino.
I don't want to lose Marino. He has to be in the top 10 for me.
Okay, so if you're going to do that within the titles, that helps Allen. You know, in the long picture. But, you know, those next five or six after the big four would be Peyton, would be, you know, Elway, would be Marino, would be Bradshaw, won four championships. He's very underrated. Great quarterback.
So you haven't mentioned Rodgers yet.
And you haven't mentioned Rodgers yet, so he's only 1-1. Not great in the playoff games, but him. So that group, after the 4, which to me, you can't go anywhere. And I'm leaving Graham out. because that's too far back for your purposes. So we're going to leave Grant out, Graham out.
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Chapter 7: What are the key factors for evaluating Josh Allen's performance?
So if you look at it from a Holmes, Brady, Montana, Unitas, those four, those next six slots, if you're just going to narrow it down to a top 10, is dicey, because you got Manning is one, Elway, two, Staubach, three, Bradshaw, four. Marino, five. Rogers, six. You got a lot of guys here that you got to put in the equation.
And sooner or later, you're going to, you know, I'm trying to think there's a couple of more.
Well, there's two more. You got Favre you didn't mention. Yeah, I wouldn't put Favre in there. Too many turnovers. And who's the other one? Too many. Favre fell apart really in the 2000s. And then some people have Steve Young. I don't think he was good for long enough to put him in the combo.
No.
And I love Fouts, but I can't put Fouts in there. They were three and four in the playoffs.
Also, his stats are hilarious because that era was like you'd throw for 30 TDs and 28 picks and stuff like that.
And he played for the right coach, Coryell and everything else. But the problem with Fouts is he wasn't great in the postseason. He's had a couple of bad losses. So you can't put him in the top 10. He's a Hall of Famer, but you can't put him in the top 10. You really have to figure out what your criteria is for the top 10. You want to see a lot of playoff wins.
Would you like to see a Super Bowl or two? Would you like to see some heroic performances even if the team loses, which Allen, of course, has got a couple of those, a couple of games against Mahomes. So it depends on how you want to grade it. After you get by the five or six guys, I think Elway is a guy that you got to put somewhere in that one to six level category.
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Chapter 8: How do injuries affect team dynamics in the playoffs?
You know, he won two Super Bowls. He was in five Super Bowls. Won two. He's got the heroic drive. John Wayne, fun to watch. I think you got to put Elway probably in that five, six category too.
Well, you think like probably the most talented. Like if you're just talking about being able to move around and to the gun that he had combined with the late game stuff, you could argue that he might've been the best one and just was in probably the worst situation of any of the guys from the last 40 years.
Quite possibly. He had a couple of bad Super Bowls. And I'll tell you something you're going to laugh at that you have to, you know, take seriously. What are you going to do with Bart Starr? Nine and one in the playoffs. Super Bowl MVP.
Yeah.
An MVP in 1966 for the league. He was an MVP in the league in 66. He had a great year. Threw four touchdowns in the NFC Championship game against Dallas. Killed the Chiefs in a very pressure-packed game. Yeah. And led the most heroic drive in the history of the NFL. Yeah.
And Ray Scott told me at Lambeau, it's the greatest mind, the longtime Packer broadcaster, it's the greatest mind over matter drive in the history of the NFL. And that was the ice ball when he went 68 yards in the last 438 of the game after nine straight three and outs in 59 degree below zero temperatures with a windshield factor you can't believe on the ice in Lambeau.
And he called all the home plays.
See, this is why I wanted to have you on because I knew you'd need barely any prep and you'd be like AI. You might be AI. It's possible. I don't know if you have an AI engine in your brain.
But Starr is underrated because, you know, everybody remembers it's Lombardi. They think about all the... You know, it's like Bradshaw, too. Bradshaw and Starr, in a lot of ways, Bill, are very underrated historically because they played with so many Hall of Famers. Right. You know, Stallworth and Swan and Mike Webster and Franco. And then, of course, the guys on defense and Starr, who's got...
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