The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Better, Jokic Isn’t Real, a Clippers Swoon, and Detroit’s Rise With Tim Legler, Plus Week 11 Picks With Joe House and Billy Gil
14 Nov 2025
Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by the ringer podcast network. I have a new rewatchables coming for you on Monday. We went back to the eighties. It's the 40th anniversary of a very important teen movie. It's called weird science. It's written and directed by John Hughes. It is a cable classic. Kyle Brandt has been demanding it for, uh, for years. So we finally, finally pulled it off.
It's quite a movie. It's one of those movies that could come out in 2025 and maybe it would just be AI and a lot of the plot would be the same. So Weird Science coming on Monday. You have the weekend to watch it. Coming up on this podcast, Tim Legler is going to join us at the top.
We're going to talk about Oklahoma City and Denver and whether they're starting to separate themselves from the rest of the league. We're gonna do a whole bunch of basketball stuff. He's been announcing some games for ESPN and he has been courtside for some really good stuff. So that's the top of the pod. And then Joe House and I are going to do Ringer 107 picks for week 11.
We're joined by Billy Gill, who just joined the Ringer a couple of weeks ago. And we're gonna spruce up the marriage with him and try to make some football picks. So as you can tell, I'm taping this
Before the Patriots-Jets game, and this was the temp intro that we made just in case the Patriots rolled over the Jets like we thought they would, and then I wouldn't have to come back out here at 8.30 and give five bullet points about, oh my God, I can't believe blank. Let's just hope the Patriots won by 20 by the time you listen to this. As for the rest of the podcast, we're gonna take a break.
Pearl Jam, and then Tim Legler. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like needing the protection of an offensive guard on the football field, but getting an elementary school crossing guard. Sure, they're both guards, but you can only trust one to keep your quarterback safe when the game is on the line.
So don't settle for just any insurance. When you can have State Farm, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, we're taping this late Thursday afternoon. Tim Legler is here. He has been announcing basketball games for ESPN and bouncing around on different shows. But this is really his true passion, talking to me about Nikola Jokic and OKC. I want to start here.
You did the OKC game last night. Yeah.
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Chapter 2: How do the Thunder and Nuggets separate themselves from the rest of the league?
I went to Clippers Nuggets and saw just the legendary Jokic game and I was driving home. I saw the Lakers score and I was just like, this feels like a two man race right now. I know we're 11 games in, but those two teams are so much better than everybody else I'm watching. Does it feel that way to you? It's like two versus 28?
Yes, clearly. I mean, I already kind of thought that, and then it was really pounded home last night watching OKC waiting on the Lakers. And, you know, OKC played the night before against the Warriors. That game got out of hand by halftime, so the OKC guys only— nobody had to play more than half a game. to beat Golden State. And then, so we're sitting there, we're in town on Tuesday night.
We're actually out at dinner. Myself, Mike Breen, Richard Jefferson, we're having dinner. And like at the same restaurant, the entire Lakers coaching staff was there. And like, we know all those guys. So we were like talking to them a little bit. And I could tell like, They were excited about the fact that they were in town. They had just beaten Charlotte on Monday.
And I think with Luka rolling the way he has been, Reeves playing the way he was, it just felt like they were looking forward to this challenge. And let's see where we are really by playing against this elite defense. And I tell you what, man, when you watch Oklahoma City play with that kind of adrenaline,
When they're up on their toes to the extent they were at the start of this game, there's nothing like it in the league defensively. There just isn't anything like it.
And they can so dispirit you that it really starts to affect you on the other end of the floor, which is what I thought happened to the Lakers, because they had nothing going at all offensively, really from about mid-first quarter on. And now on the other end of the floor, they just became just really passive. And they were the lacking concentration.
And Oklahoma City got whatever they wanted on the other end of the floor. But it started with what they did to them defensively. And when you see that up close when you're sitting there and you're taking it all in, how deep they are defensively, everybody is accountable to each other. And Jalen Williams isn't even playing in the game. Aaron Wiggins isn't even playing defensively.
And they're doing that to the Lakers with those two guys coming in that hot. They completely dismantled them. And so, yes, Bill, to answer your question, for me, it's OKC. I think they deserve the respect to say they're on a different shelf than everybody else. The question is, who can close the gap with them the most? That's really what we're talking about.
And right now, Denver has separated themselves from everybody else.
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Chapter 3: What makes Oklahoma City's defense unique?
Jalen Williams will do the same. So those other four guys, they all have a right to lay claim to those minutes, but you can't do it. So how do you think it's going to play out down the road? At some point, I think the AJ Mitchell find one of two things is going to happen.
He's either going to get so good and do this all year, including through a two month playoff run and like have big moments in the finals where he starts to go, you know what, man, I kind of think I'm good enough to be like, have my own team.
Right.
Not necessarily as like, you know, a superstar. Although, who knows? But I'm just saying like, my team starter, 35 minutes, give me the ball. I'm running the show. Not playing off of these other two great players that are in front of him. Or... They're going to decide, you know what? We have to lock this guy up.
It's going to obviously affect a guy like Case and Wallace, affect a guy like Wiggins. It's going to trickle down to those guys. And look, teams that win titles, Bill, you know this, very difficult to keep those fringe rotational players intact. So those guys typically find greener pastures because they get more money to go somewhere else because they're champions and they're good players.
Especially in the apron era. You're not keeping all these guys anymore.
Can't do it. AJ Mitchell is too exciting of a prospect. to think about them making the decision that they would go in a different direction and move him or something. It's not going to happen that way. It'll be because he comes to determination and his camp at his corner that like, you know what?
I'm actually better than, than being a guy that's like in the rotational mix of guards on a great team. Maybe I'm good enough to be a 20 point score, 35 minute guy on my own really good team. And we'll see how that's going to play out over time because this is all just happening so quickly for all of us watching this. It's like now it's expected. I expect this guy every night to go off.
I'm glad you feel that way because I didn't know if I was overreacting watching it. Because it's not like the Celtics played the Sixers the other night. And Edwards just got red hot on the Sixers, right? And if you just watch one game, you'd be like, wow, that guy's amazing. He's not going to do that every night. Mitchell's steady.
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Chapter 4: How is AJ Mitchell impacting the Thunder's performance?
And neither guy had any success going where they wanted to on the floor last night.
Plus it was a happy week for them because they, we finally have a verdict. It seems like they might've won the Luka Doncic trade. Yeah. I think it's finally, we can finally, finally come up with the winner. It took.
Hey, can I, can I just say, I didn't need nine months, nine months. I didn't need to deliberate for nine months. If I was on that jury, if I was on that jury, okay. I'm, I'm literally handing in the verdict like within minutes after I heard the news.
I think if I was a Dallas fan, I'd be more mad that we didn't get Reeves in the trade than about the actual trade. I'd be like, it's one thing how stupid it was to trade him, but I just, why didn't we get Reeves? I would just, I would go to bed at night. That would be like one of the three final things I thought about before I fell asleep.
We're going to take a break and then I want to come back because we didn't talk about Jokic yet. We just did like 25 minutes on OKC. Take one break here. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel is putting you in control right from tip off. That's right. You get to choose your reward. Play it safe. Go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move.
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All right, coming back. Somehow this isn't the number one story we're talking about. I went to a Clippers-Nuggets game last night. I don't know what was going on with Jokic because you could see it from the beginning.
I don't know whether he was mad about the playoff series from last year, if Zubac texted him something joking that he took personally, if he heard something in the second row that made him mad. But he was in playoff mode. And pretty early in the game, it became clear the Clippers had this strategy of...
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Chapter 5: What are the latest trends in the NBA season?
I agree. And it's look, he's got a, I'm looking at this now. He's got a five-game run here over the last five games. Five out of six in double figures. The last three games, he's averaging almost 18 points a game. And he is shooting 13 for 21 from the three. So he's over 60% from the three. And they're putting him in the right corner.
Yeah. It's just interesting. I noticed it a couple games ago. I'm like, oh. It's out there, kind of a pivotal moment here. This is interesting.
Chapter 6: How is Kevin Durant performing this season?
And now I feel like with their best five, they just kind of need one knockdown shooter. We know this guy, defense has to think about it. So yeah, I thought that was a good wrinkle. And I think Durant's just completely engaged. He's obviously bounced all over the map from a happiness standpoint over the last 20 years. I'm attached to him. He's one of my favorite players to watch.
I don't know what happened to him last year. I don't know what happened in Phoenix. It was nobody's fault, apparently, that we had one of the most unhappy teams of this decade. But nobody's to blame. But he seems really engaged with this team. And I think he likes these guys. And it's a no bullshit. Everybody tries. Everybody plays hard. So there's a ceiling. But it's weird.
Reed Shepard's probably the... He's probably the litmus test for how far that team's going to go. Cause I don't, if I were them, I wouldn't want to, like I was talking about last week about Tara Eason and the Phoenix pick and Van Vliet's contract for Derek White. Like, do they have to do something like that? I wouldn't do anything. I'd ride this Reed Shepard thing out and see if it works.
I agree with that. And right now they're feeling pretty good. They've won seven out of eight. They're in the mix. They've got Dan. They've got a pretty good stretch here.
Chapter 7: What insights do the hosts share about the upcoming NFL games?
Portland plays hard. Orlando, Cleveland, Denver, Phoenix, golden state. That's their next run. And so that Denver game Friday, November 21st, hopefully everybody's healthy and available for that. And maybe you can kind of really now these two teams that we're talking about the challenge. Okay. So you can go head to head and you can get a better idea. Favorite rookie before we go quick.
I'm sticking with Cooper flag, but I love what edge comb has done in Philly, but he's cooled off a little bit, but I still think it's all there. I'm just, I'm a big believer in Cooper flag as a can't miss. I think he's going to be a star in this league. He's going to have some shooting issues this year. I knew it, their team, obviously things are falling apart around him.
So some nights it looks rough for him. I'm not even remotely like kind of swaying in my opinion of what I think Cooper flag is going to end up being.
Chapter 8: Which teams are favored in the Week 11 picks?
Yeah, I'm not going to worry about him until he's like 22, which is three years from now.
Do you have another one besides he and Edge come who's standing out to you?
I love Flag. We talked about this last time. Playing him at point guard was, I just thought, idiotic. His roster has turned out to be a really bad roster. If you take Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving and Klay Thompson's, just looks like he's washed up. Maybe he can bounce back, but we're seeing a guy who looks like he's washed up. I've been really, I love Knipple in the draft.
Yeah.
I just think he looks like he's 27 years old already. LaMelo's out. He's running offense for them. He rebounds. He's always in the right spots doing the right things. And I think when LaMelo and Brandon Miller come back, because they kind of hit on Kalkbrenner. He's like... Oh, no doubt. In actual 30 minutes a game, half decent center. But I want to see when they have all their guys back.
Canipo is like just... I will admit I may have missed... I may have missed... the ceiling down the road on Knipple going into the draft. It's kind of like, man, this dude is really shooting up these draft boards. I'm like, he's going to be a top five pick. I was like, wow, man. Okay. And now I see it. I see why. Like he's, You make the best point of all.
He has a feel for the game that you just cannot teach. Does not seem like a rookie. I love that he rebounds too. He's like six and a half rebounds. Some guys don't show that bill until year three, four. For him to be showing it three weeks in to the start of his NBA career, he's got a comfortability factor about him that doesn't really go with
being someone his age playing in a league full of grown men when you with a lot of scrutiny on you as a high pick most of those guys and they have major butterflies every night it could last half a season even the ones that are like playing pretty well it's it's just it's different for those guys and if knipple it looks like this is exactly where i'm supposed to be and what i'm supposed to be doing so he's got a maturity about him that's gonna really bode well and he's gonna be i think
better overall long-term than maybe I thought. I didn't think he'd be a bust or anything. I just didn't know that he'd be this good.
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