The Bill Simmons Podcast
Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain
Fri, 25 Apr 2025
The Ringer’s Bill Simmons reacts to the NFL Draft before being joined by Steve Ceruti and Van Lathan (2:08). Then, Chris Ryan and Rob Mahoney hops on to talk Thunder-Grizzlies, Nuggets-Clippers, and other NBA playoffs matchups (48:55). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Chris Ryan, Rob Mahoney and Van Lathan Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Steve Ceruti #ULTRACourtside could get you closer to the game! michelobultra.com/courtside ENJOY RESPONSIBLY ©️ 2025 ANHEUSER-BUSCH, MICHELOB ULTRA®️ LIGHT BEER, ST. LOUIS, MO. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What were Bill Simmons' initial thoughts on the NFL Draft trades?
But I did have some thoughts. First of all, the Jaguars trading the second pick to pick Travis Hunter, which was somehow another devastating Patriots moment. I had already mourned the fact that we screwed up week 18. We screwed up our chance to have a top pick and to trade down and get all this stuff. And then the Browns had the second pick.
They get number five, a second, a fourth, and a 2026 for Hunter. And I just, I almost started drinking, but I knew I had a podcast. Um, It's always disorienting when the Browns do something smart. That was one of my first takeaways from this because it's just that usually the Browns lose a trade like this. I thought this was insane by the Jaguars.
I know everyone thinks Travis Hunter is a one-on-one, all that stuff, but I just don't think you trade huge packages like this unless you're getting a quarterback. I think the Browns were thinking the same thing any of us would think if we were in this situation. When in doubt, trade with the Khan family. I think they've become like Vivek and the Kings in the NBA.
I think that Khan and the Jaguars, I think that whole family is the same way. It's like, cool, they're going to overpay for second pick. We can move down three spots, take Mason Graham, get a first round pick, get a second, get a fourth. Sure, let's do that. One of the cool things, though, ESPN covered this in the moment. Like Cam Ward was getting picked.
I think he was even going up to the podium and Schefter came right in and was like, we had a trade, blah, blah, blah. I think with the NBA, they always like kind of wait. You find out the trade happened on Twitter before anything happens. And then I liked how it felt like it was part of the action. They announced the trade when they did the pick. This isn't hard, NBA. Just get this shit together.
I guess the positive for Jacksonville, if there is a positive for overpaying for Travis Hunter when we've never seen anybody be able to play both sides of the ball anymore. And I can't wait to watch because it's going to be super fun. They're probably like a top seven or top eight.
I'm at least intrigued to see what's going on on the multi-view with them for the first four weeks of the season with Hunter and with Brian Thomas Jr., who I loved watching last year. But the big thing I was thinking was those London games, which they always suck when the Jaguars are involved. And now it's like Travis Hunter's in the London games for the next couple of years. that's a bonus.
That's, that's worth getting up at six 30 in the morning in the Pacific coast. You're like, all right, get to watch Travis Hunter. Maybe he'll play D back and receiver the whole game. Um, The big thing for me, though, once again, they've overpaid to get Trevor Lawrence some toys. So they've spent money on Christian Kirk, Calvin Ridley, Evan Ingram, right? Big money on Christian Kirk.
That was a much maligned signing back in the day. They drafted Michael Thomas with a first round pick. That was smart. They drafted Travis Etienne 25th in the first round. I think the same year they picked Lawrence. And then they paid Lawrence huge money. It just seems like they're constantly trying to throw assets at him, hoping he's good. And the thing is, he might not be good.
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Chapter 2: Why did Shador Sanders fall to the second round in the NFL Draft?
Jalen Walker fell to Atlanta at 15, and he was one of the ones that seemed like he was a fast riser down the stretch, and he was even getting rumored for a second at four, and Peter Schrager was doing his whole, to a man, people will tell you that this guy just wows the room. He's one of those, like great character, wows the room guy. Fell to 15 to a team that never seems to have a pass rush.
So I really liked that pick for them, and it just felt like they got good value. I loved Hampton to the Chargers at 22, who everyone thought was the second best running back in this draft. And maybe some people felt like the distance between him and Gente wasn't really even that significant. This guy just seems like a kick-ass, bang the line, keep the chains moving guy.
And they needed somebody like this. And I just thought at 22, that's where you want to take a running back. And then Matthew Golden went 23 to the Packers. I'm just going to say this. I, I'm going to make a prediction. I think he's going to be better than McMillan. Uh, and I'll get to McMillan in a second. Um, and then I'd like that.
Uh, I like that Houston was able to trade 25 for 34 99 and a third round pick because the giants got excited about Jackson dart, who might be a career backup. But I thought that was smart that they were loading up on picks cause they need stuff. My favorite dumb trade was, uh, Atlanta traded number 46, uh, number two 42 and a 2026 first round pick to the Rams for number 26. And, uh,
I just, I love having the Falcons with this current administration in the draft. It's like in my, in my vote out draft with Sal and those guys, we have our crazy friend Brad's in there and you just never know where you're getting every year with Brad. This year he took like nine or 10 running backs and it was just like, of course he did. He's Brad. That's basically become the Falcons.
Nobody moves up 20 spots from 46 to 26 and gives a first round pick. In a draft where by the time we got to the mid-20s, I don't think anyone was doing backflips. I thought that was hilarious. I thought it was a very fun draft for glass half-empty stereotypes. Will Campbell has short arms. Gentee runs with his pads too high, apparently. Heard that one a couple times.
Membo, you can see this in the ringer draft guide, was called a leaner and a lunger. which I think are bad traits for a tackle, apparently. But my number one, and this is why I didn't like the Ted McMillan pick, and I thought that was the worst pick. I thought him going to the Panthers at eight was the worst pick in the draft. We'll see if I'm right or wrong.
But Ted McMillan can't get enough separation was the thing that people were hanging on. There was also the he loves volleyball more than football. I'm not going to acknowledge that. They can't get enough separation.
I think it's a real thing because the Patriots over and over again have drafted receivers or signed receivers like Devante Parker, who the guys are never open because they can't get any separation. And then the quarterback has to make like perfect throws just to get in the ball. You see these highlights of these guys in college making one handed catches, jumping over five, nine defensive backs.
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Chapter 3: What are the key differences between quarterbacks Shador Sanders and Jackson Dart?
No, because it's a little more confined. This just seems like this massive sporting event that I just don't get it. Do you agree with me on McFillan?
Maybe it's just an excuse to party, get hammered, and, you know, maybe that's just the sell. Which, you know, Rose trip, and you just get there, and everybody's kind of, you're on an Airbnb for a weekend, and you just kind of do your thing. Maybe that's fun.
Yeah, that's the thing is, I don't, I'm not saying, I'm leaving the door open that I'm completely wrong, and I'm just not seeing it correctly. But I don't see it in any way. Do you think Sanders should have fallen in the second round?
I feel like I like him more than the consensus does. Like, all these GMs and anonymous... I love the anonymous thing today. It was like there was people trying to out-anonymous everyone else with anonymous quotes. I don't know. I mean, obviously, I wasn't in any of the meetings with the guy, but I kind of respected him.
Like, he seems like he's got a decent head on his shoulders, given who he is, who his dad is. And he got his ass kicked at Colorado almost every single week and really never complained and was just a baller. So... I don't know. I'm not a talent evaluator, but I respect his game.
But clearly there's just, I think, you know, it was weird on the broadcast because they just kind of refused to ever say like, hey, maybe he's just not that talented. And that's why he's not. They kept, you know, Kuyper kept bringing it up. They kept talking about how, you know, about his dad showing him and it was kind of awkward.
And maybe it's just, hey, he's not that good of an arm strength guy. And, you know, why are we taking that guy in the first round? Maybe it's as simple as that.
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Chapter 4: How does Van Lathan evaluate Will Campbell and his fit with the Patriots?
Right.
People were being anonymous because they didn't want people coming at them, but it didn't seem like a fake story. It did seem like something that turned some teams off.
But can I ask you a question? Let's say that it's not a fake story. The question is, why is it a story? Why would an anonymous source... You have a bad interview with Shador Sanders. Right. Why are they saying anything? I'm just asking. Yeah. By the way, I'm not casting any type of expression. I'm saying... I'm asking why. Like, you have a bad interview with Shador Sanders.
Or you look it out because you want to get him the second round. And you're like, yeah, that guy's a fucking asshole. And meanwhile, you're like, I hope he falls to 33.
But it got to a point to where every single fucking thing was so negative. Like, did you hear... that we watched him tie his shoes and it took him fucking five seconds to do the loop-de-loop. Something's wrong with this guy. He's undraftable.
It was like the draft day movie. It was the birthday party. It was Bo Calhan.
the whole thing. So I'm just, you know, I'm, by the way, I'm not, I'm just saying that this was pretty remarkable for, from a guy. There's that other tweet from Dion where Dion is saying, Hey, my son's going to go top five. It's really like, everyone was saying that he was going to be like a top five draft pick. Some people say, there's this word for three months.
But that cooled off the last couple of days. It did. No, last couple of weeks. Yeah, yeah. But it almost feels like did we just kind of like talk ourselves into something that was never actually going to be real, you know?
Well, I know as a Patriots fan hoping that two quarterbacks were going top three, you could feel it shifting in fucking February that once the first wave of analysis came in on him, it was pretty bleak. So I don't get it.
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Chapter 5: What are the highlights and key moments from the OKC vs Grizzlies NBA playoff game?
Honestly, when he took his jersey off coming off the court, he was not responding as if he was going to be coming back out there. You could see he was in a lot of pain. You could say he was in a lot of anguish over that fall. It was a tough scene all around.
I hated it, man. It was just like, it's the, the, the jaw experience and such a sick nutshell where he was about to do something incredibly sick.
Yep.
And you're like, this is why I watch basketball. This is incredible. And then just the freaky fluky stuff. But I want, I want like guys to try to do stuff like that. That's why you watch hoops.
The audacity to hurdle Lou Dort is what makes Ja Ja, but it's also what leads to these plays, unfortunately.
I missed it live, so I went back a couple of minutes because when I flipped over, I flipped over when I saw Verno tweet like, oh no, and I was like, this could only be one of three or four things. So I went back And when I established it wasn't a Cowboys draft pick situation, I was like, oh, let me find when the jaw injury must happen.
And I went too far back and you can watch him and you can see like all the life in his eyes. And he's just such the heartbeat of the franchise while he's out there. And like the crowd is feeding off of him. So it was really eerie to go back like even a minute before the injury and then it all changes.
Yeah, when Verno tweets, oh no, the most likely scenario is a jaw injury. Given that the NFL draft tonight, it was probably like I have over two and a half quarterbacks in the first round. Oh no. I mean, there was all kinds of gambling possibilities too. This OKC piece. you know, there's not a lot to learn from this series. It's a, I think pretty much of a mismatch.
And if Memphis was going to win a game, it was going to be tonight. But for the most part, this was either going to be four or five, but it did get interesting down there. Five minutes left. Memphis is playing really hard. Pippen's doing some interesting stuff against SGA. It's like a smaller guy trying to like kind of dive down on his dribble.
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Chapter 6: How did Alex Caruso impact the Clippers' defense in their playoff game?
They're going to play the Clippers probably in... in round two, right there, they might play golden state or the Lakers who, who knows in round three. And then the Celtics are waiting for them. And there's going to be these little pockets at the end of games, these real crunch time moments when teams are going to be throwing everything they have at them to try to knock them out of their offense.
It's like, all right, Jay Williams, let's see it. Hey, check. Can you make that Alex Bruce? Are you afraid of the corner? How about you, Lou Dort? Uh, what did you notice from the last five minutes? Um,
I mean, I think just a lot of optimism from the Chet piece of this game, just a monster second half overall that is heartening as far as his piece in that, right? They're always going to have the questions about this sort of secondary offense. They're also going to have those questions, as you say, about what is the best optimal defense to throw at SGA in a playoff setting.
And I think Scottie Pippen Jr. does a good job against pretty much every star he's asked to guard, like real yeoman's work, considering what he's asked to do. You could say the same of a Chris Dunn matchup. Derek Jones Jr. is one of the few defenders in the league who actually seem to have an effect on SGA in the regular season during some of their matchups.
And so the challenge of a team like the Clippers, as Denver is finding out, is the sheer variety of shit that they can throw at you and the way that they can mix up their coverages and their assignments and keep you guessing at all times.
And if something is going to throw the thunder off their game, and I'm not sure it will in a way that they're going to lose a series, but it would have to be disruptive in that way.
Yeah, it's really hard. I said this last Thursday, it's hard for me to imagine them not winning the title. I thought that this was a real cool gut check win despite the fact that the headline will be Ja. The chat thing that I noticed down the stretch, Bill, with the threes was just how he rendered Edie kind of unplayable.
I mean, he was still out there, but watching Edie try to get out to the perimeter, I was just like... Just got to grab it.
Yeah, it's the perfect OKC box score if you're saying what's the blueprint for what their championship clinching box score would look like, right? SGA 31-8. Holmgren, 24-8 rebounds. Williams, 26-6-5. And then Caruso. How many steals did he have? 10-6 with four steals. But how many deflections? Yeah. It was crazy.
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Chapter 7: What challenges do the Memphis Grizzlies face without Ja Morant in the playoffs?
It's just not a good recipe for him.
After watching these three games, I'm surprised they won one. That's what I'll say.
Wow. Chris, do you think they should have hired Vincent Hanna as their interim coach?
I mean, Adelman is doing his best, I guess. I don't even know what you would do with a week's prep to become the head coach of a championship hopeful. But I think if we were wondering whether or not Josh Kroenke was like, oh, I think we actually have the pedigree to win the title.
We just need different voices in the room versus I want to get this stuff, these guys out of here so we can get ready for the draft and the offseason now. I think it might be the latter.
Westbrook saying my foot's hurt is like, you fucking get hurt walking your doggy. Be there.
Do you just have me here to do heat? Just pull the string on his back.
Well, I feel bad for poor Edelman. I just think at this point they might've been better off just hiring actors to play, to play the coach. Just bring somebody in, bring in Ben Affleck and just tell him to be the way back guy. Wow. Yeah. Just to tell him to look like he had a few the night before and he's just going to yell at the refs and stuff. Um, I, uh,
I have to ask the king of narratives, Chris Ryan. Oh, yeah. If the Nuggets lose badly again Saturday, I think, and combined with OKC sweeping Memphis... The narratives are going to come shooting left and right like a t-shirt gun, one of which will be, you voted for Jokic for MVP and he just lost in five and shouldn't have won day one. Who is you?
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Chapter 8: What concerns and expectations surround the Nuggets in their playoff series against the Clippers?
I mean, I guess Iggy Buncey Potey retired. I mean, it's the person that holds everything together and does all this little stuff. And I just, I don't even, as someone who cheers for somebody who's not contending, I can't even imagine how difficult it must be. Who's your team? I forgot. You weren't cheering for Toby tonight? I'm cheering for basketball. I'm cheering for the Pistons.
I'm just kidding.
He's had a good series. I hope you go for 20. He's been good. Speaking of him, Ben Simmons had a couple moments in the Clips game too. Ben Simmons plus nine. Broke out a headband, made a stop on somebody and did a little like stare to the crowd, kind of yell to the crowd stuff.
Continuing his streak of dribbling hard right to the logo and then skidding to a stop and handing the ball off to a guard.
I have a suggestion for you for the last act of your career. You've done a lot with your career, but I want you to lose all your hair, then grow out a crazy sports writer receding hairline, and become the poet of the Intuit Dome, and just write about Ben Simmons' connection to the wall. You know? You know?
This was the day Ben Simmons became a Clipper.
That would be, what if we started just assigning pieces like that and telling people to just sell the hell out of them? Like somebody goes in and writes like a really heartfelt, Ben Simmons has finally found a home here. Today he exploded for zero points and three rebounds, but his defensive stop in the first half really made it. Yeah. I mean,
Derek Jones and Batum coming off the bench is 100 times better than anything Denver has. They have seven guys. Plus the Simmons thing.
Yeah, I mean, you joke about the Simmons part. The Clippers winning his minutes so decisively is a damning a piece of evidence. Like, that is really where you are if you're the Denver Nuggets is you're straight up getting embarrassed by the Ben Simmons zone defense minutes. And Jokic is on the floor for a lot of those, right? And you're still trying to figure it out.
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