The Bobby Bones Show
BOBBYCAST - Haley Sacks on Good Debt, Building Wealth & Why Getting Rich Should Be Boring
23 Jun 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Chapter 2: What money lessons should everyone know?
I always. Yeah. I guess I didn't know, but I knew. No, that's how I am, too. I was like, oh, I know what I'm going to do. I knew the feeling that I wanted from work. And it wasn't ever about money. I made money not chasing money because I was fine without money. Yeah, you've chased your passion. Yep. And so if you go into your DMs, what normal question do people ask the most?
Because, again, it's not normal for me on either side of it. So what do people mostly hit you up about in just DMs? Oh, my God. Well, I get really the craziest DMs, to be honest, because I run a segment called Financial Secrets. So I get everyone's financial secrets about, like, A lot of people hiding money from their spouses.
A lot about inheritance, like wondering what to do if you get a bunch of money. A lot about finding out someone at their company who has the same job as them is making more than them. Talk about that. Yeah, which is crazy.
So, I mean, legally, there's nothing that says that if you work at a company and me and you have the same role, they have to pay us the same amount, you know, but I might make more money because I'm just more I'm better negotiator. And so but when you find that out, I think it's really hard because you don't really know what to do with information.
But for I think you need to reframe that and sort of realize that it means that like you can get more money. It doesn't mean that you should get more money by saying, hey, Sheila is making more. But when you negotiate, you should say, oh, well, I've looked at statistics of this position in other companies and what the going rate is and I am underpaid. Can we have this discussion?
I have found that when people are coming to me to ask for more money, just the best communication method is, hey, what can I do to make this level of money? No, that's so true. I talk about that in the book because I'm very much a financial expert who is about making more. I believe... That there is a floor to how much we can cut, but no ceiling to how much we can make.
And that especially for women, we encourage so much scarcity instead of teaching women how to actually just make more, which is going to create such... Like you cutting avocado toast or a latte isn't going to move the bottom line as much as like making, you know, $40,000, $50,000 more a year, like apples and oranges. And so...
Yeah, I think that it's really important for you to focus on actually making more. And in the book, there's a whole chapter called Secure the Damn Bag, which is about how to make more money. And a pillar of it is just being good at your job. Because when you go in and negotiate, I talk about this in the book that you have to have a wins folder.
So in your wins folder, put in all the things that you've done right and why you are more valuable than I think and why I would be upset to lose you and all the great work that you've done and then ask for more. So present data, then ask for more. Yeah, you have to present data like you don't just deserve a raise because you've been there for a certain amount of time.
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Chapter 3: How can understanding good vs. bad debt impact your finances?
You know in comedy, you're out there for yourself. There's no easy street. There's no corporate track to lift yourself up. You really have to do it just day by day, brick by brick on your own. This felt cheap to that because it was like, great, I'm going to be in the SNL ecosystem and I have a full-time job and we're going to be put in front of all these agents and managers and whatever.
They're going to platform us and this is sick. So it meant a lot to me to have it, but I never had a full-time job because I'd been doing comedy up until that point, which is all 1099 work, or I'd been having these part-time jobs on top of it to keep myself afloat. I was a nanny, I worked at a Pilates studio, just whatever.
I was making videos on the side for companies, just piecing it together, as we all do in our early 20s. And so the first day of that job where I really wanted them to like me and for it to go really well, they asked me about health insurance and 401ks. And I was expected to know how to read a paycheck and all these things. And I had no idea. And I was so embarrassed. Truly, I was humiliated.
And so I sort of just nodded, pretended like I didn't think a 401k was a road race, and went home and tried to learn. And then what I found was the information for women was so much about scarcity and deprivation.
like literally about like re-washing your paper towels or like never buying a pre-cut vegetable like or of course no avocado toast no lattes like just so much about depriving yourself and that being like being good with money as a woman like whatever that's not true at all nothing about building wealth or you know negotiating or making money or anything like that and then the information that was more like male centered was just about these guys who look like they had really never been through puberty
And they were so boring and it was like so jargon heavy and just didn't relate to me. And so what I realized is like, OK, I live in this world where everything feels really like fun and aspirational. Like I love pop culture. I love the Kardashians. I love Beyonce. Like I want to be these women. Right. But what if there was a woman that I wanted to be who made it feel aspirational to grow wealth?
And like to be good with money and actually like, you know, max out your Roth IRA or, you know, like negotiate your salary or say no to a bachelorette trip or, you know, do any of these things that are sort of pillars to a financial life. And so I couldn't see her. So I became her.
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In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was. Terrified.
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Chapter 4: Why is building wealth often a slow and boring process?
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And we're back on the Bobby cast. And so that's when you realized you wanted to learn more and educate yourself. Did you dive in? Well, that was like I was patient zero. So I was like, OK, that's how I'm going to learn. That's what's going to interest me. And then really what I did. And if you have the same story as me where it's like financial books.
are really the key to starting that financial journey. That's why I was so excited to write a money book too because to me that is what propelled everything for me. I just read so much and I became an expert through that. I feel like there's so much bad advice on TikTok. So much bad advice. Just people either saying things for clicks or they're ill-educated on what they're saying.
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Chapter 5: What does it mean to be a 'future rich person'?
And it's like, okay, what's sort of the difference? Could it be that like they're just seeing more, they're more financially literate because they have more access to it in this way? I hope so. But I think it's also really important to be discerning. And remember,
You want your life to be exciting, you want your relationship to be exciting, you want cool, exciting accessories and clothing and trips and all this stuff, but getting rich should be boring. So any person that you see online who's making it seem really easy and really fast and really exciting, they're the ones who are getting rich off of you. I have a lot of questions about debt. Yes.
I'm your girl. I was so afraid of debt my whole life because I never wanted to owe anybody anything. I've never had debt. Yeah. I don't have debt in anything now. But it was always that way. Okay. And so I always lived extremely within my means or I saved up and I bought it because I did not want to have debt. Now I have learned, and this is rational and rational fighting with each other.
To me, I've been taught that not all debt is bad. Yes, exactly. So it's all about the 7% rule. Tell me that. Have you heard of this? I would like for you to tell. Of course I have, but tell them. Okay, I'll tell you. So you're saying that you buy your house outright. Now I have no debt, but I also understand that some debt is okay, but I'm still so scared of it.
I couldn't get a loan because I have no credit history. Credit history, yeah. and I have a lot of money in the bank. But they were like, we can't give you a loan because you don't have a credit history at all. And so, just tell me why debt's good. Okay, so this is a classic, like, rich person versus normal person thing where it's like, yeah, normal people are so scared of debt.
And also the financial advice, the old rules of building wealth that we need to replace were all about debt being so evil. Like Dave Ramsey is this big pillar of financial literacy and he literally has a bell that people like drive like 20 hours to come ring when they become debt free. Like the culture is all about being debt free.
But there's something called the 7% rule that rich people use to actually leverage debt to make more money. O' Do you have to be rich to use the 7% rule? No. Basically, the 7% rule is all about your debt interest rate. Say I have student loans that are 5%. The stock market historically returns 8% to 10% annually.
I would make more money paying the minimum on that 5% and then investing whatever extra money that I was going to put towards it to pay it off aggressively in the stock market than I would save by just paying off that loan. And this is why you see celebrities have mortgages. Jay-Z and Beyonce have a mortgage. Mark Zuckerberg has a mortgage. Adele has a mortgage. Why?
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Chapter 6: How can small financial decisions lead to significant changes?
Because they're borrowing money at a lower interest rate than they could make investing it, and they're able to turn a profit and grow wealth. And you can do this too if you have low interest rate debt. Okay, I feel stupid now. Well, I mean, we should refire house. Nah, I'm good. Nah, you're not. At this point.
But also, the one thing to know about financial advice is, yes, there's a right and a wrong way to do things, but there's also a you way to do things. And I think that we all come into this with our own gripes and history and things that we're working through. And so it's like, if what feels really safe to you and good- Safe is a good word. Yeah, it's safe.
If you feel safe not having a mortgage, sure, there might be a way for you to make more money, but it sounds like you have enough money. And if safe means more to you than extra zeros in your bank account, that's okay. One of the habits I had to break was I would pay bills a month extra in case I ever ran out of money. So I'd have a month buffer.
And my business manager was like, you have to stop doing that. But I was like, no, no, you don't understand. Back in the day, if electricity got cut, you were done. She's like, your electricity is not going to get cut. I have the fear mindset still in me where I've had to stop a lot of those habits. Because I have somebody telling me, and I think you're that somebody to a much younger generation.
Well, you're lucky that you have this business manager. It sounds like she's been super helpful. I pay her. Yeah, but that's okay. People pay me. Buy my book. She gets 5%, you know? Yeah, that's good. Yeah, and the book has done fantastic. Yeah, the book's crushing. They have to call you a New York Times bestseller everywhere you go now. I know, we're both New York Times bestsellers.
That's right, thank you, yes. Yeah, I want to call you at a two because it's a tombstone thing. But you're a 2X. That's true. Two times New York Times bestseller. That's true. Why does the goalpost always move? Now I have one, it's like, ooh, shit, I got to do it again.
Yeah.
I almost didn't do it again. I didn't want to write a second book. How long was it until you did it again? Four years. And you got a big fat deal? Would you like me to tell you my story? I would love to hear your story.
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Chapter 7: What money habits could be holding you back?
Because it does have to do with money. Yeah, I love money. I love stories. You're my guest, so I wouldn't normally tell a long story about me, but you are a money person. This is a money story. I think you will enjoy it. Yeah. I was pitching a children's. I had done a children's music record. It got bought by Cracker Barrel. And so I did this and I was like, oh, well, how about that?
That seems pretty easy. I'll do a kid's book. And I had a few meetings with some publishers in New York. And so I flew up to New York and nobody wanted it because that kid's book market was oversaturated and I wasn't famous enough. And so it was a mixture of both of those things.
And so I had done two or three meetings and I went to one final meeting at HarperCollins, which is a large book company. Yes, familiar with one of the big publishing houses. And I pitched them the idea for the kids' book, and they said, that's not for us. But the meeting that I pitched to, there was someone in there who was a hybrid working, that worked in kids and also nonfiction.
And they said, hey, we love your life story. Would you write it? And I said, I don't know. Like, I'm not Michael Phelps. Yeah. Not... a Kardashian. I don't know if anyone wants it. And she's like, if you'll come tomorrow and pitch to a different group, we would love to have you. And I was already flying back home at the time. So I canceled my flight. I stayed an extra night.
I went back and I pitched and they said, we love the book. And they offered me like $180,000 upfront, which was a really good advance. I felt, I don't know what people make, especially at the B I do now. Yeah. I'm like, for you, like we could get higher maybe. Well, I didn't know the difference. And I'd never written a book and I didn't think I deserved the $180,000. Yeah, that's crazy.
And so I'm like, I said, no, I'm not going to take the money, but let me write half the book. And if you still like it, I'll take your money. Then I'll finish the second. I've never written anything. I mean, I've written blogs. But you know, that's different. Writing a book, you have to have the structure down and the whole thing. It's a lot.
And I went home and I just wrote essay after essay after essay just about my life story. And I turned in 30,000 words and they said, we like it. Will you take the money now? And so I took the money. You're so funny. I didn't want the debt. The money is so, you didn't want the debt. I didn't want the debt. You didn't want the debt of the book deal. I didn't want the debt.
You said, no, I'll show you. I'm good for it. Yeah. I was like, I want you to. You paid one month in advance. I want you to actually believe that it's good by me showing it to you because I don't believe I'm good. Yes. And so I wrote it. They paid me. I then finished the book. It was number one for four weeks, which was. Four weeks. Number one. Wild. Wild. I'm telling you, it was wild.
I did not believe it. Number one for four weeks. Are you kidding me? No. That's crazy. I agree. I was embarrassed before it came out because I thought, and you know, a book tour is a, it's grueling. It's grueling. I'm gonna do all this book tour. Nobody's going to buy it. And everyone's just going to like laugh and I'll never write anything again. And so it did really well.
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Chapter 8: How can you manage your finances without feeling overwhelmed?
I don't sit with things well. Keep going. Okay. I said no for three years or so, and then I did a TED Talk, and it was called Winning by Losing. And they said, write that. And I said, I don't know. And they said, here's a check. I said, okay, I'll take that one up front. It was much more. Yeah, I'm sure, because you proved that you could do it.
Yeah, and then I didn't feel like I was stealing their money. Yeah. And they were trying to convince me to do it. I didn't have to pitch them. Yeah. And so then I wrote a book called Fail Until You Don't, and it was a two-week, number one. Fail Until You Don't, great title. Thank you. And it was that, it was very practical. And then I got my friends to write their failure stories. So smart.
That are super famous. Like Charlemagne Tha God, who's one of my closest friends. Love him. So he wrote like a chapter in it. Wow. Chris Stapleton, like all these artists. So these people that I, and it was just like, talk about your biggest failure that people will have no idea. And so I wrote like 85% of it. I had some friends hop in and do that. And then it did well.
And then I'm like, I'm done. Then I wrote a kid's book and it was good. But that was my book story is that I wouldn't take the money because I was scared to take the money because I didn't think I was good enough. I mean, I totally get that. I think that there's so much imposter syndrome when it comes to taking checks.
But you sort of just have to go with it, especially in this industry because sometimes the checks are pretty big and you don't want to pass them up. How did you negotiate your book deal? Well, we did, I played everyone against each other, which is always good to do. So you had multiple people, see, I didn't have multiple people coming in. You're a star.
No, no, but so I actually, so when I initially did my book deal, I wanted to do almost like write like a Sex and the City or a Girls, like a story that was about four friends in New York City starting out and like their money journey. And they have this mentor and like,
I teach about money through that because I'm so much about having spinach in the brownie, trying to find creative ways to teach finance that people would be compelled by. I like that, spinach in the brownie. I've never heard that. I think about that all the time because you want it to feel like a treat.
That's why I use so much humor in everything I do and things like that because you want it to just feel so palatable. And so I worked so hard on this book deal. My friend Genevieve and Yellow, I went to college with and she like writes on hacks and is doing Jake Shane's show and like is like such a big television writer. She was doing it with me. And so we brought it out.
I had agents at UTA and couldn't really get more than like, $100,000 for it. And they were like, okay, but just so you know, if you just did the finance book, the 101. Straightforward. Yeah, Mrs. Dow Jones book, you didn't musty it up with all this flavor, you would get a lot more and probably help more people. And so I was like, okay, I get it. I have to just start my book journey with the 101.
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