Bill Kristol: Trump's Iran Disaster Is Also a Defeat for the U.S.
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What does Bill Kristol say about Trump's Iran deal?
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Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Happy Memorial Day. We've got an abbreviated edition of our usual Monday podcast for those of you on long road trips with your family and you want to disassociate and just hang out with us instead. Or people that just want to celebrate the holiday by... paying attention to our insane news cycle. And since it's Monday, I'm here with Bill Kristol. How you doing, Bill? Fine. How are you, Tim? I'm doing well. I'm doing well, all things considered. Why don't we just get to it here? A lot of updates on the state of play with regards to Iran since we were last together on Friday. On Saturday, Trump announced that we're basically on the cusp of a deal.
A deal is essentially done 95% there, a lot of ballyhoo. A lot of back padding among Trump himself, but his allies, the pro-war allies, were pretty horrified by the rumors coming out about the deal. And so since then, things have started to unwind a little bit. On Sunday, there was a massive spin effort to push that there would be dust for dollars. There'd be no dollars without nuclear dust. They were calling all their allies, making sure they knew that, and that there'd be no toll on the strait. And this morning, Monday, Iran is saying that they aren't charging a toll on the strait, but they are charging an environmental protection fee. which shows that the Iranians have learned a lot from the liberal bureaucratic nomenclature of the West.
So anyway, that's the state of play we're at now. Bill, what's your sense of things?
Trump desperately wants a deal. The Iranians know that and are twisting the knife a little. But also, I think, as you can see with the environmental fee thing, giving him enough cover so that Trump will end up with a deal that'll be murky more even than these deals often are. And we'll see what really happens in terms of the nuclear material, in terms of opening the strait. But I think we're heading towards, I mean, we've been heading towards a deal for a while. I think some of us have thought it was going to happen for a long, long time. Trump has basically announced he wants a deal. I mean, the degree to which he can bluster a little bit and put up memes of, I don't know, us bombing Iran or decimating places or Iran with an American flag.
How have Trump's actions affected U.S.-Iran relations?
But at the end of the day, he wants out. And I guess he'll get out. I think he will get out.
It's interesting. I noticed you were posting about this over the weekend. We had an initial quite angry reaction from the Mark Levins of the world, Lindsey Graham, FDD, the major backers of the Trump war effort who felt like this was basically a disaster and a betrayal. As the hours go on, you know, we're going through the same thing that happened after every Trump disaster, January 6th, etc., where they all start to, you know, look at the bright side, spin things for Trump. What's your sense of that, like, you know, development? Is he going to be able to, you know, get people to circle the wagons like usual? Or is there something different about the Iran situation?
I mean, if you were a serious Iran hawk, let's say, who was going along with this, not because you were loyal to Trump, but because you believed in certain things and certain outcomes were important, you're not getting any of those outcomes, really.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What does Bill Kristol say about Trump's Iran deal?
0:00–3:25
2
How have Trump's actions affected U.S.-Iran relations?
3:25–7:34
3
What are the implications of the Iran deal for U.S. foreign policy?
7:34–10:45
4
How does the Abraham Accords relate to Trump's negotiations with Iran?
10:45–14:55
5
What criticisms are being made by Trump supporters regarding the Iran deal?
14:55–18:20
6
How is the situation in Cuba linked to U.S. foreign policy discussions?
18:20–21:56
7
What reflections are shared about Memorial Day and its significance?
21:56–25:44
8
What final thoughts do the hosts have on the current political landscape?
25:44–30:08
Speakers
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