China's Tech Tightrope: Power, Regulation, and the AI Race with Angela Zhang
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What background does Angela Zhang provide on China’s tech sector and why is it important?
Hello, and welcome back to the cognitive revolution. Today we're continuing to build foundational context for understanding China as we enter the AI era. My guest is Angela Zhang, professor at the Gould School of Law at USC and author of Highwire, how China Regulates Big Tech and Governs its economy. Having grown up in China, lived in Europe, and become a law school professor in the United States, Professor Zhang combines an insider's view of China with a global outlook to create a unique perspective on Chinese technology governance and international technology competition. After first discussing the difficulty of studying China and how much better China collectively understands the United States as compared to how well we in the United States understand China,
We unpack the dynamic pyramid model that she developed in her book to explain China's regulatory approach, as well as the prevailing characteristics of hierarchy, volatility, and fragility that it exhibits. We then examine the stark power imbalance between government and business in China, where the state clearly has the upper hand, and compare and contrast the Chinese approach with its European and American counterparts. We also discuss several notable moments in history, including the Chinese government's decision to exclude American tech companies, thus creating the market opportunity in which their own tech sector could develop. The famous twenty twenty crackdown on big tech that involved canceled IPOs, major destruction of the market cap of Chinese tech firms, and the sidelining of Jack Ma, who had been one of China's leading technologists and global ambassadors up until that time, as well as the more recent apparent thaw between the CCP and leading Chinese tech companies, which some see as evidence of recognition by the government that they need the most vibrant tech sector possible in order to effectively compete with the United States going forward.
Along the way, as you'll hear, I ask a bunch of basic questions about the practicalities of Chinese society, including how concentrated power really is, and how internet censorship works at the operational level. On the topic of AI specifically, I was also very interested to get Professor Zhang's takes on the light touch that the Chinese government has taken on AI so far. How China understands the US export controls on chips and semiconductor manufacturing equipment? How to understand the deep seek moment and whether we should expect another crackdown coming soon? And even whether or not G himself might be, as some in the AI safety community have speculated, a doomer. Please note as you listen, I am well aware that a number of the opinions Professor Chang expresses in this conversation are highly controversial.
To highlight just a couple, while I'm not sold on their strategic value, I am also not convinced that the deep seek moment proves that export controls won't matter going forward. On the contrary, I think there's a very good chance that held in place as they are, they will. And more specifically to the Chinese tech market, I know that Jeff Ding's work on technology diffusion suggests that this is not in fact a great strength, but rather a weakness for China. That said, because my time with Professor Shang was limited and because I'm interested in hearing different perspectives on such important questions, I chose not to push back on each of these topics in real time along the way. I think it's worth taking her self description as a neutral analyst seriously and genuinely trying to consider her analysis from a neutral point of view.
But of course, this won't be the final word, and you can expect multiple strongly contrasting points of view on this feed coming up. For now, if you're finding value in the show, please send it to a friend who's interested in US China relations or the global AI landscape. Reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify are always appreciated too, and we invite your feedback via our website, cognitive revolution.ai, or by DMing me on your favorite social network.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What background does Angela Zhang provide on China’s tech sector and why is it important?
0:00–11:40
2
How does the “dynamic pyramid” model explain China’s regulatory hierarchy and power balance?
11:40–22:10
3
Why does the Chinese government hold a dominant position over tech firms compared to the West?
22:10–34:40
4
What were the key historical moments—like the 2020 crackdown and Jack Ma’s sidelining—that reshaped China’s tech landscape?
34:40–44:46
5
How does China’s internet censorship and content‑moderation system operate in practice?
44:46–55:11
6
What drove the rise of China’s tech giants and how did market protection shape their dominance?
55:11–1:06:22
7
How is AI regulated in China and what is the significance of the Deep Seek episode?
1:06:22–1:14:54
8
What are the prospects for the US‑China tech rivalry and how might future policy shifts affect AI development?
1:14:54–1:25:35
Speakers
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