Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. On Sunday, the United States and Israel pounded Iran with missiles for a second straight day, destroying more and more power centers of the regime and, according to rights groups, bringing the civilian death toll there to well over 100. Meanwhile... Iran unleashed a wave of retaliatory attacks that proved deadly. Three U.S.
troops were killed in action, becoming the first Americans to die in the war.
As one nation we grieve for the true American patriots who have made the ultimate sacrifice for our nation.
But increasingly, all eyes were on the Iranian government and the millions of citizens who have long opposed it. And the looming question became whether a weakened Islamic Republic could actually be toppled by its own people. Today, my colleague Farnaz Fasihi brings us the view of this pivotal moment from inside Iran. It's Monday, March 2nd. Farnaz, thank you for making time for us on a Sunday.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me, Michael.
So, Farnaz, for the people of Iran and for the massive diaspora of Iranians who live outside of the country, including you... Sunday, today, as we speak, it's one of those hinge days in history. There was a before and there was an after. And right now, the after is a world in which Iran's supreme leader, who has been in power for over three decades, has been killed and is no longer in power.
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Chapter 2: What triggered the recent conflict between the U.S., Israel, and Iran?
like a scream of relief almost. And for the diaspora, it was scattered all over the world. It was a similar feeling. I watched a group of family members congregate on FaceTime. Some were in the U.S., some were in Europe, some were in Iran. And everybody did a video call and some of them were crying. They were just these tears of relief and shock and joy even. And then they celebrated with shots.
Wow.
And there was a lot of cheers.
And when you say diaspora, you quite literally mean families who were once together in Iran and presumably scattered to the winds across the world once the Islamic Revolution came in 1979? Yeah.
Exactly. It feels like a dream for many Iranians that once they used to all live a few blocks from each other and have multi-generational family gatherings. And under Mr. Khamenei, many of them have not been able to return to Iran. And many families have just scattered like stardust all over the world and separated from each other.
So that's clearly the segment of Iranians, both inside and outside the country, who may be on the celebratory side of the spectrum in the 24, 48 hours since he was killed. What about those who support him? Presumably you've been talking to them as well. What would you characterize as their reaction?
For Mr. Khamenei's supporters, this feels like a big loss.
Alhamdulillah.
His supporters started to come out into the streets in large numbers and going to mosques and praying and crying. It feels like the ground is shifting under them. Not only have they lost a religious figure that they revered and believed in, but they've also lost a political leader of a system that they have ideological loyalty to.
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Chapter 3: How did the Iranian government and citizens react to the attacks?
Right. We can, I think, draw from that. And also like in January, literally every small and big town all over Iran saw protests against the government, including the religious sort of strongholds of the government where there were lots of people out calling for the end of this Islamic regime.
If we look at the demographics of the protesters who were killed in January, they're from all ethnic groups, from a large geographic area in Iran, and different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Well, because his death is so fresh and the reactions, as you are describing them, are so different, let's talk about this man who is inspiring such profound reactions, Khamenei, and why he inspires such strong reactions.
Mr. Khamenei is the second supreme leader of Iran. The first was founding supreme leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khamenei. He came to power in 1979 after the Islamic revolution that toppled the monarchy.
Twelve days ago, the Ayatollah was operated on in an attempt to stem intestinal bleeding. Early yesterday, he suffered a heart attack. He whispered Muslim prayers and died. Iran has named a successor to the Ayatollah Khomeini less than a day after the Ayatollah's death in a Tehran hospital.
49-year-old Ali Khamenei was today chosen Khomeini's religious successor by Iran's Council of Senior Clerics.
Mr. Khamenei succeeded him in 1989.
Ayatollah Khomeini unleashed anti-Western passions throughout the Islamic world. Today, there were thinly veiled hopes that his successors would be less effective, if not more friendly.
And it is said that while the first supreme leader led a revolution, Mr. Khamenei led a state. He really is the ruler who made sure that the Islamic Republic went from a revolutionary idea into a state that entrenched power.
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Chapter 4: What historical significance does Khamenei's death hold for Iran?
So I think there was this desire by him to have the kind of ending that he envisioned and he wanted.
Right, which may be Iranian propaganda after the fact or may contain some shred of truth. On the subject of the regime's sloppiness or complacency, just how many of its leaders did the U.S. and Israel kill? And for those of us not as familiar with Iran's government, how big a blow to the regime does it represent?
It represents a massive blow to the regime. Putting Mr. Khamenei aside, they killed the commander-in-chief of the Revolutionary Guards, the defense minister, and some other senior officials. But Mr. Khamenei had planned for this possibility. He had instructed everyone in leadership roles to name four layers of succession.
So they plan for the idea that three of every position in the government might end up being killed in what ended up being this weekend's attack, and there would still be someone to succeed that person.
Yes, exactly.
Wow. So at this moment, and we're talking to you around 3 p.m. Sunday, what is the state of that succession in the Iranian government?
The state moved very swiftly to project a sense of control and orderly transition while they name a successor for the Supreme Leader. That seems to be where things are standing.
OK, well, that's the projection of a transition. But is the regime actually in control of Iran? And how do we know?
Right now, as of Sunday afternoon, the regime is still in control of Iran. We haven't seen any major defections. They are still in control of security on the streets. Their security apparatus are all over the capital. They've set up checkpoints and stopping cars and doing surveillance. Interesting.
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Chapter 5: What emotions are being expressed by Iranians after Khamenei's death?
Which may or may not ever come to pass, of course. And if there won't be any kind of a revolution here— Is there, Farhan Oz, a leader within the regime that the U.S., that Israel might find tolerable, who they see as somebody who could, in theory, satisfy what remains of their regime, its loyalists, potentially be acceptable to the opposition, and that the U.S.
and Israel and its leaders feel they can do business with? Basically, the kind of person that the U.S. found in Venezuela after it arrested Nicolas Maduro.
It's interesting you bring up Venezuela because Iranian sources were telling me that one of the conversations they're having in private about succession and about planning amongst themselves is the question of who will be the Delsey of Iran, referring to Venezuela's vice president, Erdogan.
And some of the names that have come up are technocrats and former generals of the Revolutionary Guards who are sort of seen as centrists, pragmatists, people who maybe would be open to a change of course. One of the names is Ali Larajani, the head of the National Security Council, who's effectively running the country right now.
General Mohammad Bagher Qalibaf, a former Revolutionary Guards commander, who's the Speaker of the Parliament and has a role in commanding the war now. He's also one of the names that I have heard. I've also heard the name of former President Hassan Rouhani, who's kind of a moderate. cleric, but he's sort of been outcast from the close circle of Mr. Khamenei.
So these are some of the names I've heard. But I want to mention here that for that 80 percent who want wholesome change and for the opposition and dissidents, no figure that is associated with the Islamic Republic's regime is going to be acceptable because every single one of these people was part of Right. Mm-hmm.
civil war and would rather engage with someone from that system that would be willing to make concessions or not. And we heard President Trump say today that he's open to speaking to Iran's new leaders and that he's heard that there are some options for succession. So I think he's kind of signaling to the Iranian regime that if you do have a character who is willing to
give me what I want and make the kind of concessions that I want on nuclear and military and missiles and policy.
Then I will back that leader.
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