Dave and Chris discuss the value in learning to take the long way instead of the shortcut. They are then joined by one of the great modern explorers, among other endeavors, Erling Kagge, who talks with them about his mindset and how anyone can take risks and challenge themselves—even in the face of extreme danger. The episode ends with a surprise MOIF. Hosts: Dave Chang and Chris Ying Guest: Erling Kagge Video/Audio Producer: Felipe Guilhermino Majordomo Media Producers: Kelsey Rearden and David Meyer Editor: Stefano Sanchez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.