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Chapter 1: Why did former CBS journalists leave mainstream media?
Let's jump right into it because I want to talk about you guys were at 60 minutes at CBS, correct?
Yeah.
And then you decided, I guess it was over a year to go to do things differently and start your own podcast. And here we are.
Yeah, here we are. We took the same plunge that you did. We were just so frustrated being kind of feeling stifled at a network, realizing all the work we were doing wasn't even reaching for us, like people our age, like none of our peers were watching it.
And so we wanted to do something, taking what we learned there, making credible journalism for people our age and putting it where they'll actually be on social media.
You said that people weren't really watching. What is it about a place like CBS, which we call the mainstream media, what is it about it that it's just so unappealing to young people?
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Chapter 2: What factors make mainstream media unappealing to younger audiences?
I mean, there's so many things. I think working at 60 Minutes, as cool as it is to have this concentrated 12-minute segment on a topic, I think the pacing of the show The topics that they would choose would be so late. It's on, you know, you have to tune in to the broadcast. I think just there's so many things that make it so unaccessible, but people are on social media all the time.
They're looking for quick news. That's interesting. That's in the language that they're speaking. So I think we just decided to change up the presentation and where we do the news.
And make it more accessible and reachable and younger.
Chapter 3: How did the guests transition to independent media?
I mean, a younger demographic because, listen, quite frankly, 60 Minutes, I look, is one of the, I believe, the premier, as you guys know, news programs in the world. And I don't think that history is going to look kindly upon the people, the person, or the people or persons who dismantled that. And so that is, that's not good news.
But since, are you happy you're not there now considering what's happening? How do you feel? I don't want to put words in your mouth. How do you feel about what has happened to CBS in 60 minutes since you left? Are you happy that you made that move and that you're not there now?
We are so happy. We say this to each other all the time.
Chapter 4: What role does social media play in modern journalism?
We're like, thank God we left when we did, because if we were there right now, we'd be wanting to get out. But it would be like a year and a half later. But it's so that said, it's so sad to see what's happening because we still have so many colleagues that we revere and that we know do such great work that are now stuck there while it just kind of slowly disintegrates.
The same thing I'm sure you feel about CNN.
Mabel, do you hear from... Well, yes, I do. And I haven't been quiet about it. Even though, like you said, you love the people who are there, right? And they're great journalists, but you feel for what they're dealing with because, look, it ain't pretty. Mabel, do you hear from folks there?
Yeah, and people are, like Ren said, kind of going through the feelings that we did a couple years ago.
Chapter 5: Why is independent media crucial in today's landscape?
I think it's really surprising that it takes so long to build up such an amazing show and an amazing institution like CBS. It takes decades of amazing work to build something like that up, but only like a year and like a person or like a group of people to break it down.
Like it shows you how fragile these systems can be that like it takes so long to make something so great, but it, it can all come down so quickly. It's kind of scary.
So then how did you decide to do it? And when, Mabel, to be honest with you, I ran into you on the street, I was doing a live, you weren't even sure, because you know, that's how, think about it, that I can be live on just anywhere, right? And then the old days, you'd have to get a satellite truck and you do this and you have to do that.
And this was live and I ran into, I bumped into you on the street and you talked about your inspirations and the advice that you had been being given about making this move, this transition.
Chapter 6: What challenges do journalists face when covering sensitive topics?
Yeah, just about how like following your instincts and taking the jump just because that seems to be where media is heading. It's becoming independent. It's leaving this corporate entity that people are just not trusting anymore. So like Ren said, we felt very inspired. But what you had done and we're just like, because Ren and I had been talking about it for a while.
We were like, we need to make something for younger audiences. Should we do it? Should we not? We tried to actually launch it at CBS for a while because that would be the best of both worlds, right? We could stay at CBS and do something like this.
Chapter 7: How do generational perspectives differ on current conflicts?
They didn't want it.
They like, everyone was interested and then nothing would actually get done. Like, you know how it goes.
So, I mean, Ryan, like we, I do, I remember not to cut you off, but I remember being at CNN and I wanted to do a podcast and we were doing it, we were doing a podcast and then, you know, Chris left and I was like, well, we can do this and do that. And they're like, yeah, but we were kind of moving away from that because podcasts are so expensive and whatever.
And I was like, and I kept thinking in my head. And I didn't have the knowledge that I have now, but it's like, yeah, if you don't have 47 people, you know, trying to do the podcast and the music and the whole thing and just let it be more organic. And then now that I'm doing this, those instincts were real. It should just be more natural, closer to the bone, closer to the ground.
So, I mean, sorry to cut you off, Mabel, but I know exactly what you're talking about.
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Chapter 8: What future trends are emerging in journalism and media coverage?
It's very hard to get them to understand that.
Yeah, they just won't. We even I guess I can say this now because he's not there anymore either. We talked to the executive producer of 60 Minutes, Bill Owens, and he told us if we want to do something like this. We told him our idea and our vision. He said, you have to go somewhere else.
Like, don't even waste your time at CBS because he was in way more like privileged conversations than we were and knew no one was willing to expand that far.
Yeah. But even now, there was an article that I saw. I just saw the headline. I didn't really read it. That they were trying to, I guess, in their streaming, or I don't even know if it's on their main programs, but trying to get their anchors to be more natural, like roll up their sleeves and not wear a necktie. And what was it?
They said that Jake Tapper was anchoring a program from his office desk. And it's like, oh, my gosh. It's kind of, I love those guys. It's kind of cringe. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Well, they're so behind the times, which is what's crazy. It's like we were pitching this around like 2019, 2020, 2021, kind of like around that time. And we felt like it was kind of the way that social media was headed. But media is just like multimedia organizations are just so behind the times and it took them so long.
And now they're like, yeah, maybe the anchor should roll up their sleeves a little, but like you're already behind what's happening now.
Yeah. When they said, oh, this news organization is going to start doing direct-to-camera videos. And I'm like, that was five years ago. Yeah. Great, but there are other things now that people are doing like on the street mini dramas. Have you seen those? You know what I'm talking about? And I'm hooked.
There's my friend, Bevy Smith does this little mini drama that they do on the streets of New York or in a restaurant or in a hotel or whatever. And it's fascinating and it's all social media.
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