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Chapter 1: What challenges do Steven Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman face in their marriage?
That song kind of blew up and people started using it at weddings and publishers came and said, you know, that's a big song. You should write a book about your wonderful marriage.
Have you been fired by a counselor yet?
Because we've been fired. Because we know we're not out of the woods until we walk into heaven.
I mean, we're not.
We had some really tough, almost call it moments. There were days where it's like, I'm not working on this today. You can do that.
What up? Welcome to another special episode of Off The Record with John. I'm John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, and I've started incorporating more conversations with people that I love, people I'm interested in, people who inspire me, and you all continue to say, hey, have more of these conversations, so we're having more conversations.
And we've started this little, named it something different, called Off The Record, and it's been a blast. This time I'm sitting down with the great and powerful Stephen Curtis Chapman and his wife, Mary Beth Chapman.
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Chapter 2: How do Steven and Mary Beth navigate the pressures of fame?
Now, if you don't know who that is, In the contemporary Christian music world, this is like Garth Brooks of that planet, right? I grew up a punk rock kid and a metal kid, but I did go to Sunday school. And even peripherally, I knew who Stephen Curtis Chapman was because he was the legend. He was the ultimate, right?
He's won about 8 billion awards of all kinds for his music, his songwriting, and he's He's been married for decades to Mary Beth Chapman. Now, here's where this conversation is important. They have a brand new book out called Still Here. And it's a discussion on...
the challenges they've experienced being married and how they've stuck it out and hung in there despite the loss of a child, despite all sorts of challenges professionally, personally. And so we dig into that in this conversation. How does somebody of his caliber, of her caliber, decide we're gonna stick it out and stay married, especially when things get really, really hard?
Now, if you're listening to this and thinking like, right, it makes sense to be like, well, I'm not married to super musician or I don't even listen to Christian music. I get it.
Chapter 3: What role does therapy play in their relationship?
But this conversation is a really powerful one. And so it applies to my house. It applies to your house. It applies if you've been married for a long, long time. It applies if you're in the middle of a marriage that's just drifted apart.
This applies to you if you're thinking about getting married to somebody and you're thinking about asking them and you don't even know how it's going to look 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now. This is a powerful conversation. So buckle up for a great conversation with my friend Stephen and his amazing wife Mary Beth as we talk about their marriage and their brand new book still here.
So I was shocked at how when I was sitting down thinking about marriage
the moment like in my head it's a singular moment and my wife jokes she's like we had that like happened five times like over the course we've been married 23 and a half years when we sat across the table and we were like hey is this it like we have to call it like the the thing we had is over do we want to do something we want to build something else because this thing's over and so writing it down for me i was shocked at how much of that
began to become real again. I thought by moving through it, the feelings of that stuff was over. How was writing this? Did that stuff come back? Some of those old stories, old conflict moments?
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Chapter 4: How do they cope with the loss of a child?
Yeah, I think it does. And for us at the same time, I won't put words in your mouth. I think it also, I have found that doing some of these interviews, it's been reassuring to go, wait,
we we did that we had some really tough almost call it moments like really hard really hard it's it's been a it's been a journey and yet doing some of these interviews and the writing process it's been like we no longer did it we conquered it we made it and and yeah and it's both it's both right because it's like there were days where it's like i'm I'm not working on this today. You can do that.
I can't. I can't.
It really does feel like those – the stones of remembrance, you know, in the Old Testament and the Israelites, you know, those Ebenezer stones, you know, going to build those and, you know, stack those stones up so that when you come back here years later and, you know, your kids and grandkids are going to go, what's that? What are those stones stacking? What's that about?
You know, and you're going to have an opportunity to remember again, well, God did this right here and the waters, you know, the Jordan were held back and we crossed over in this crazy way. miracle thing that you're going to need.
And I feel like that's part of what has been a real, in a way, it's funny, Scotty Smith, we'll probably say his name a hundred times as we're talking because he's written on just about every page of that along with us because he's journeyed with us as our
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Chapter 5: What are the microhabits for a better marriage they discuss?
Friend, pastor, yeah. Confidant. One of our first and main counselors probably through many of our years and would direct us. I think you need to go talk to this person. Now I think you ought to go talk to that person. But he... He would talk about things that God uses almost as a Trojan horse.
You know, some of these things that you – God's in this and doing something, and you think it's this, but it's actually – he's actually doing something bigger, and you might – you know, you won't even see it. Yeah.
I think this book in some ways has kind of been that for us because it's – I'm not – it sounds funny and we kind of lightheartedly say this, but it was really scary even going into this process, even after 41 years, because we know we're not out of the woods until we walk into heaven.
I mean, we're not – this ain't behind us.
And I mean, the enemy is not – said, hey, yeah, I guess they made it this far, so let's go find somebody else to pick on. No, it's like holding a beer. If you want to dance, let's dance.
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Chapter 6: How do they define success in their relationship?
So going into this, there were moments even early on where I thought, well, crap, this is really going to be bad that we get, you know, about three-fourths of the way through this project and we have to call the publisher and go, is it a problem that we actually are divorced now? Is that going to be an issue with this? You're probably going to, you know. Exact conversation with my wife.
I'm like, the subtitle is How I Lost My Marriage, Writing a Book on Marriage.
Yeah. So, I mean, and that was a real thing. And yet, I think for, For me and for both of us, we're hearing ourselves even in these interviews, and we did the audio book for it, which that was even another like, are we going to survive this because we're going to go back through all this and read it to each other? And I know my wife well enough to go, wait a minute.
I said, can I retract that because I don't feel like that right now. But it was amazing. It's been so good to just, I think, hear our own voices and each other's voices reaffirm and sort of confirm the things that are here that are to God's glory, and this is what God's done. This is what our journeys look like.
Chapter 7: What advice do they give to couples facing difficulties?
We're still in it. We're still in process, but we did finish it, and we're still married, and that's good.
Anytime you're trying to step and push darkness back and help somebody— you would be foolish not to think that the enemy is not going to rear its ugly head, which is why I keep telling Steve, maybe we should like, let's, let's go start a casino. Yeah. Maybe we should do something where the enemy's not like, I'm not on that. Yeah. Go ahead.
So how'd y'all meet?
Oh, this is fun. So my maiden name is Chapman. Did you know that?
Gross.
It is gross. And awesome.
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Chapter 8: How can couples learn to communicate better with each other?
And he's from Kentucky, so it all works. That explains it. We met at Anderson College in Anderson, Indiana, and we shared a mailbox because our last names were the same.
That's how we met. Yes.
True story. It was meant to be a true story. And so I saw his name. He saw my name. I chased her down.
Well, I saw her first walking across campus. And a friend of mine, literally, we were walking to the cafeteria. And this beautiful woman. brown-eyed girl that I'd never seen on campus before walks by, and he waved and said, hey, hi, Mary Beth. And I'm like, who is that? Because we'd been there a couple of years. This is my third year, and she was a freshman.
And he said, I met her last night at an orientation thing, and he was going to check out, I'm sure, all the new incoming freshmen. And he said, her name is Mary Beth And I remember him saying, wait a minute, I think her last name's Chapman. You guys, y'all can like be related. And I was thinking, I hope not. Although I'm from Kentucky, so that doesn't matter. It could be. It could be.
Which explains our kids.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we met at our mailbox. And or I saw her name and then because I was already had seen her and thought, man, she's quite lovely. I found her in the cafeteria, saw her, sent out some spies like watch for this girl. She's coming across campus. Now, this is before cell phones, computers. Babe, this is before the Internet. This is before electricity.
But hold on.
I got to say this. This is before fire. This used to be called romantic, and now it's called stalking, right?
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