Interesting Times: She Exposed Epstein and Shares MAGA’s Anger
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What sparked Julie K. Brown’s investigation into Jeffrey Epstein?
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I wanted to share an episode from my colleague Ross Douthat's podcast, Interesting Times. Back in July, he spoke to Julie K. Brown, the investigative journalist whose reporting led to the arrests of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. I remember thinking at the time it aired that it was such a great booking, one of those ones I wish I had made. And it remains a helpful explainer of all the intrigue surrounding Jeffrey Epstein while we wait for the release of the Epstein files. And if you haven't had a chance to check out Interesting Times, you should. It has just become an essential lesson during the second Trump term. You can learn more in the show notes.
From New York Times Opinion, I'm Ross Douthat, and this is Interesting Times.
Forget about the political drama for a moment. What is the actual truth about Jeffrey Epstein? Are there real secrets that haven't yet been revealed? And what's it like to try to pull back the curtain on one of the 21st century's most mysterious villains? My guest today brought Epstein's story fully into the public eye with her dogged reporting for the Miami Herald in 2018. And she'll be our guide through the big unanswered questions that are still with us today. Before we dive in, I just want to note that we recorded this conversation just before, as in hours before, the Wall Street Journal reported on a birthday letter sent by Donald Trump to Epstein and before the president then authorized the Justice Department to seek the release of grand jury testimony in Epstein's case.
So you won't hear us discuss those developments, just everything else. Julie K. Brown, welcome to Interesting Times.
Thank you.
So for the last couple of weeks, ever since the Trump administration decided it was a good idea to tell the world that there was nothing more to say about the Jeffrey Epstein story, which has not been true, I feel like we've had a lot of these meta conversations about the case. conversations about Trump administration politics, about MAGA infighting, about sort of theories about conspiracy theories. And I just keep coming back to the man himself and all of the weird questions that, to me – As a journalist and news consumer, still hang over this whole story. So I'm really hoping that together we can sort of walk through the story, the actual story of how Jeffrey Epstein, the man, became Jeffrey Epstein himself.
the mythic villain of the early 21st century and i want to start in the middle for him or maybe near the end for him but at the beginning for you how did you first get drawn into this story what prompted you as a journalist to start looking into jeffrey epstein and his crimes
Well, I was my background was mostly crime reporting. I was on the Miami Herald's investigative team and I was covering prisons and I needed a sort of a change of pace. So I thought I would try to find a mystery to write about. And the Jeffrey Epstein case had been written about before, mostly focused on the celebrity case. Right. And as I was sort of looking for something to do around that time, Donald Trump, who was our newly elected president, nominated a guy by the name of Alex Acosta as his labor secretary. And I knew that Acosta was the prosecutor who signed off on this sweetheart deal, so to speak, that Epstein had gotten way back in 2008. So I thought at the time that at his Senate, at Acosta's Senate confirmation hearing, they were going to ask him a lot of questions about this case.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What sparked Julie K. Brown’s investigation into Jeffrey Epstein?
0:00–9:10
2
How did the 2008 plea deal downplay the scope of Epstein’s crimes?
9:10–15:30
3
What role did powerful lawyers and prosecutors play in shaping Epstein’s lenient sentence?
15:30–22:38
4
How did Epstein’s connections to wealthy patrons like Les Wexner fuel his wealth and influence?
22:38–30:09
5
What evidence exists about Epstein’s alleged black‑mail and intelligence ties?
30:09–39:34
6
How did the Trump administration’s response shape public perception of the case?
39:34–46:59
7
What unanswered questions remain about undisclosed government files and victims’ rights?
46:59–54:27
8
Why does Julie K. Brown believe the Epstein story still needs deeper investigation?
54:27–1:01:20