While Nato looks up at the skies to Russian drones buzzing its airspace, a far more serious threat lurks below, on our ocean beds. And evidence is mounting that Moscow is already mapping the frontlines in a putative, deniable, attack. As our guest, the former British Defence Secretary, John Hutton, tells Tom, undersea cables are the means by which the economy and society itself survives. And they are vulnerable to sabotage in the form of 'accidental' cutting by shadow-shipping vessels. This could, at a stroke, kill the UK's sources of data, disabling banking, business, communications, and even the UK's 'ability to defend itself.' John Hutton is now a member of the House of Lords and sits on the National Security Strategy committee. Last month, it published a report into the potentially 'catastrophic' consequences of just such an attack and laid bare the UK's lack of preparedness. As John tells us, this would be a 'world of utter chaos, where civil order hangs by a thread.' And hoping for the best, while failing to plan for the worst, would be an absolute derogation of duty on the part of the Government. Host: Tom Newton Dunn Guest: John HuttonPhoto: Getty ImagesClips: DW News, 60 Minutes, CBC NewsGet in touch: [email protected] reading: Joint Committee on National Security Strategy Report: “Subsea telecommunications cables: resilience and crisis preparedness” Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.