The new Middle East: The battle to shape a region
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When something significant happens in British politics, stories are always unfolding behind closed doors. The State of It podcast from The Times and the Sunday Times takes you inside the room where it happens. I'm Stephen Swinford, the political editor of the Times, and with me are Patrick Maguire, Lara Spirit, and Ben Riley Smith. We will bring you scoops and analysis about what is really going on in Westminster. Listen to The State of It twice a week, wherever you're going to be. You get your podcasts.
This episode of The General and the Journalist is brought to you by Team Orion. At a time where the world is increasingly uncertain, defense needs more than traditional logistics to face those challenges. It takes trusted data, rapid decision making, and operational resilience. That's where Tim Orion comes in. Strengthen defense readiness through integration. Combining the sovereign expertise of KBR, Unipart, and IBM, Teamuron delivers the decision-making power and support systems to sustain forces when the stakes are high. Discover how Team Orion is helping shape the future of defense readiness. Follow them on LinkedIn at Team Orion Defense. Over the last century, the Middle East has been remade repeatedly by collapsing empires, revolutions, and war.
Right now, it's happening again. Iran is weakening. Gulf monarchies are becoming regional superpowers. Old alliances crumbling, new ones forming at a blinding pace. So what will the new Middle East look like? And what will it mean for the rest of us? I'm Tom and I'm
Patrick. Welcome to The General and the Journalist. This week we're joined by just about the perfect person to chew all this over with, the celebrated historian Simon Seabag Montifiore. Simon has just published his new book this week. It's called The Cauldron, The Making of the Modern Middle East. And it's an extraordinary canter through the last 125 years of its turbulence and evolution. Simon Or Seabag, as
you're happy to be known
as, I guess that's an old school hangover, is it?
Um yeah, I guess it is. Um no one calls me Simon except my my parents who are dead. So do call me Seabug if you like. I
only get called Thomas by my mother when I'm in trouble. Seabugs, thanks so much for joining us. We've both read your book. It it it's a fantastic read. Before we dive deep into it, which we will do, a bit about you personally. Harrow, Cambridge. It's the perfect Englishman C V. It is. But your background's actually quite different, fascinating different. So Moroccan, which is a seabag bit, several different Jewish lions as well. Uh you really are a product of of the Middle East. So how personal a book was this for you when you were writing?
Um well my knowledge of the Middle East, my fascination with the Middle East, just I mean, originally I was fascinated with Russia. My mother's family came from Russia. My father's family of the Seabeg Montefuries, so the Seabeds come from Essawira and Marrakesh. And the Montefiori's from Italy, but originally, obviously from the Middle East, from North Africa as well. Moses Montefuri, my ancestor, played a role in the development, I guess, of Palestine in the nineteenth century in the in Ottoman times. So I've always been fascinated in it. The title's The Cauldron. Why that? Uh my publisher said to me after October seventh. They said to me, Would you write a would you write a short history of Israel?
And I said, Absolutely not. I've already written that book, and that's Jerusalem, you know, the history of the Holy Land. But what I'd love to write is something that I think doesn't exist. And I just said, the cauldron, how the Middle East was made. You know, I really follow Benjamin Disraeli's um dictum is when you want to read a book and you can't find it, you should write it yourself. And so that's what I've done.
here. See back, how frustrating is the process of having to write a book that is absolutely fascinating at such an incredible time of change, those tectonic plates moving all over the shop a around the Middle East and having to stop it. Potentially when everything could change again next year and your conclusions could be out of date.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–4:56
2
Why does the modern Middle East keep being reshaped by collapsing empires and wars?
4:56–9:24
3
What inspired Simon Sebag Montefiore to write *The Cauldron* and how does his personal background influence it?
9:24–25:38
4
How does the book open with the 1902 raid of Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud and why is it a cinematic starting point?
25:38–32:15
5
Which historical figures does Montefiore identify as the biggest nation‑builders of the region?
32:15–48:47