487: Why Feeling "Seen and Heard" Can Save Your Relationship and Your Sanity | Caroline Fleck, PhD
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What is the purpose of validation in relationships?
What up, team? It's episode 487 of The Genius Life. Let's go. The Genius Life. What up, everybody? I'm your host, Max Lugavere, and welcome back to The Genius Life, a show where we're not afraid to get deep, get real, and occasionally question our own lunch choices. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Caroline Fleck, a licensed clinical psychologist, executive coach, and author of the book Validation. This conversation is all about how validation, in its truest form, can radically transform relationships, improve mental health, and build bridges across even the widest divides. We unpack the difference between validation and agreement, how it's used in high stakes clinical therapy, why it's more powerful than love in some relationships, and how to use it as a tool, even in arguments about phones with your kids. A tough one, I know. But make sure you listen through to the end because that's when things take a raw and vulnerable turn.
We talk about depression, trauma, chronic disease, and even navigate the complicated ethics of meat consumption, cognitive dissonance, and animal welfare. It's one of the most open-hearted conversations I've had on the show. Don't forget to share this episode with someone you love, and if you haven't yet, leave a rating and review on your podcast app of choice. It really helps. And hey, if you want more insights like this delivered straight to your inbox, plus bonus content and exclusive discounts on the products I use and love, join my free weekly newsletter at maxlugavere.com slash newsletter. It's no spam, just science, and it's loved by over 120,000 high performers. And now with all that out of the way, let's get into it with the wonderful Dr. Caroline Fleck.
Here we go. Dr. Caroline Fleck, welcome to the show. How are you doing?
I'm doing well. How are you?
I'm doing great. I'm excited to have you in.
I am excited to be here.
We're going to talk about all things validation, and I assume we're not talking about free parking.
How does validation differ from agreement?
No, no, common mistake, but that's not what we're talking about. We're also not talking about agreement, which I want to clarify upfront because a lot of people confuse validation. If I validate somebody, I must agree with them, which is not the case.
Okay, what's the difference?
So validation communicates basically that you see the other person, you hear them, okay? If I was to give you the academic definition, we'd say validation communicates, first and foremost, it's a form of communication. It communicates mindfulness, understanding, and empathy in a way that conveys genuine acceptance, okay? So it's just that feeling of like, oh, I feel seen. I feel like you really get me, all right? I can validate somebody even though I don't agree with their perspective. I can validate why somebody would eat meat even though I myself am a vegetarian. And if I wanted to try and change their opinion and have a debate, I could do that too. I could definitely find plenty that I disagree with and that I could nitpick.
But if I'm just looking for the validity in their perspective, the kernel of truth, I can look and find that and communicate that.
Are you actually vegetarian or was that just an example?
Oh, you are? Yeah.
Nice. I'm a proud omnivore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get it.
Can you offer me some validation?
I absolutely, 100%. I was also most of my life until, let's see, until college.
Until what happened in college?
I saw a video of animals being experimented on, and it was just a devastating video of like where they were pumping like shampoo, you know, into some little monkey's tummy.
Yeah, that'll do it.
And and I just couldn't believe it. And then when I kind of looked behind that curtain of what goes on in a lot of these industries, I just like couldn't look.
Yeah.
Away.
Oh, there's definitely some aberrant stuff that goes on.
Yeah. So for me, it's purely it's actually purely ethical. So if I can speak to a lot of valid reasons why even for health reasons, like when I first tried going vegan and like literally almost killed me because I was just eating like cereal and milk. It was bad.
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