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The Hook Up

How We All Become Obsessed With Romantic Love

11 May 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: When did marriage start being about love instead of survival?

0.031 - 5.959 Dee Salmon

Let me stand tremblingly before you. Bridegroom, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber. It goes on.

0

6.059 - 7.301 Unknown

Sorry, that is horrible.

0

7.321 - 24.656 Dee Salmon

It gets really horny. This is like a pickup artist book, but this is written in 2 AD in ancient Rome. And it put romantic love on a pedestal. And this has completely shaped the way that we love today. I've, like, had breakups with people and I was like, oh, yeah, so, like, love is blind. Thanks, Shakespeare.

0

24.676 - 26.403 Unknown

A whole show has been made over it.

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26.704 - 29.254 Dee Salmon

Shakespeare walked. So Romantic Era could run.

29.515 - 30.78 Unknown

Too.

39.805 - 53.607 Dee Salmon

Hi, I'm Dee Salmon. Hi, I'm Pip Rasmussen. And this is The Hookup. This is where we talk all things love, sex, dating and relationships. And we love to do a little bit of research here. Dee's got her glasses on, if you're watching on YouTube.

53.627 - 60.939 Pip Rasmussen

I know. Thank you so much. Yeah, if you've never watched the show before, absolutely give it a go. Pip and I are always here in gorgeous fits.

60.979 - 80.528 Dee Salmon

And yes, I do have my glasses on because we are getting serious today, Pip. Yes, we are researching an episode and trying to fit in centuries, thousands of years of history and context just for you in about 45 minutes or less, all about romantic love.

Chapter 2: How did ancient civilizations express romantic love?

314.13 - 337.817 Dee Salmon

So they reckon, and they, I mean, historians. Historians. Historians reckon that they have found one of the earliest love poems in existence. And this is like a physical thing. We'll put a photo up on the screen. It is a clay tablet. And it is called The Love Song for Shu Xin. So this is 2000 BCE, so written over 4,000 years ago to this day.

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338.518 - 352.992 Dee Salmon

And it's written and it's like inscribed on this clay tablet. And it was written by a woman for a Sumerian king. A lot of this script is very intimate and it's very sexual as well. So do you want me to read this?

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353.212 - 354.173 Pip Rasmussen

Yeah, can you? I'm so excited.

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354.153 - 369.773 Dee Salmon

So bridegroom, dear to my heart, goodly is your beauty, honey sweet. Lion, dear to my heart, goodly is your beauty, honey sweet. You have captivated me. Let me stand tremblingly before you. Bridegroom, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber. It goes on.

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369.873 - 371.114 Unknown

Sorry, that is horny.

371.134 - 397.012 Dee Salmon

It gets really horny. It gets really, really horny. Wow. So it goes on. That's a kind of like, you know. a little excerpt of it. But I think what is interesting about this and what historians have noted is that this really suggests that even in a structured royal marriage, there is, like, room for this, like, romantic sexual desire. And it's quite beautiful as well as, like, horny jail for sure.

397.092 - 406.126 Dee Salmon

Like, it goes on to sort of say about, like, the beauty and, like, the text of, like, I'm trembling before you. Like, that's, like, lover boy, lover girl shit. It's giving heated rivalry.

406.166 - 430.482 Pip Rasmussen

It is. yeah yeah giving like a bit of like romanticity to be honest yeah totally that's so fascinating well i think when we look because what we want to do now is look through just different ancient civilizations and culture right and find like this poem like moments where we have examples and evidence of this so-called romantic love that we think of today right so in ancient egypt

430.462 - 450.276 Pip Rasmussen

There was a lot of personal letters and poetry that we have today in like the Met and the London's British Museum that have poems and songs from everyday Egyptians showing tender emotional exchanges. You know, whether that was between lovers, some married couples were often even shown holding hands or embracing in tomb art.

Chapter 3: What role did courtly love play in medieval society?

470.39 - 484.929 Pip Rasmussen

And it describes a romantic scene on the Nile River. which is kind of homoerotic or has queer undertones. Yeah. It's basically describing like true women who have a sacred and emotional love and bond.

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485.15 - 502.791 Dee Salmon

Yeah. And I think one of the lines in the poem is something about like, I'll be discreet, like I'm not going to tell anyone that I saw this, right? And it's sort of like that's why historians have been like, oh, is this like a queer relationship? Like these women were in love with each other because the poem is like, don't worry, your secret's safe with me kind of thing.

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502.771 - 516.811 Dee Salmon

And it's so fascinating because obviously a lot of what we're going to talk about today is pretty heterosexual. But there's a lot of stories, cultural myths and like even recorded poems like this that definitely hint at a lot of homosexual relationships.

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516.831 - 520.376 Pip Rasmussen

Yeah. And the same is found in ancient Greece as well.

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520.497 - 521.037 Dee Salmon

Yes.

521.318 - 528.831 Pip Rasmussen

So let's talk about ancient Greece. So I think when we think about ancient Greece, we think about like gods and mythology and we think about passion and tragedy.

528.891 - 546.683 Pip Rasmussen

And I think that's a lot of where we'll talk about it, but a lot of the ideas of romantic love actually stemmed from, which is so fascinating because something that we've spoken about before on The Hookup is the story around the symposium, which was something that Plato wrote. And that idea that there was –

546.663 - 570.156 Pip Rasmussen

people were two people joined together so there was like I know these these humans that had four arms four legs yeah two faces one head yeah and at some point they got split in half and this is where the idea of you couldn't be a whole person until you found your other half actually stems from yeah so I think it's wild because that is an idea that we talk about so often now

570.136 - 579.979 Pip Rasmussen

In today's Western society, right, like I found my other half, like I can't believe I'm marrying my other half. And it's so wild to think that it came from this story in ancient Greece.

Chapter 4: How did Shakespeare influence our view of romantic love?

665.243 - 681.548 Dee Salmon

In our bookstores at the moment or online or on TikTok. To be honest, like the first time I had a look at this, I was like, this is like a pickup artist book, but this is written in 2 AD in ancient Rome. And book one is basically about the seduction of a woman. So some of the chapters here are like,

0

681.528 - 702.591 Dee Salmon

how to find her search while you're out walking another chapter saying you could find her at the beach or at the theater or at the races or the circus then it kind of goes into like how to win her and it's like don't forget her birthday there's a whole chapter about don't forget her birthday like this doesn't sound that crazy to us right like this is so I just cannot believe that this was something that people were talking about

0

702.571 - 703.272 Pip Rasmussen

Back then.

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703.493 - 711.407 Dee Salmon

Yeah. So then book two, this is a three part thing, but book two was like romancing her. So how to keep her down, like keep her locked in.

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711.447 - 712.57 Pip Rasmussen

How to keep her interested.

712.71 - 722.588 Dee Salmon

Exactly. So these ones are kind of interesting because it was like a bit of a contrast. Some of them were like, be gentle and good tempered. Be patient and comply. Give her little tasteful gifts.

722.568 - 738.67 Dee Salmon

noted love that um comfort her in sickness let her miss you but not for too long there are also chapters about like stirring her jealousy but also at the same time respect her freedom is the next chapter don't mention her faults don't ask about her age and don't rush her

738.65 - 740.353 Unknown

This is so wild.

740.413 - 756.962 Dee Salmon

It was actually so, so interesting. And yeah, I just found that really interesting because I was like, this is like a pickup guide in ancient Rome, but it's definitely showing us that there was like feelings of romantic love that wasn't just like try and get her for her money and like for the dowry or like for the

Chapter 5: What characterized the Romantic era's approach to love?

783.773 - 794.254 Dee Salmon

Yeah, because remember, this was like a tongue in cheek, like this was kind of like funny, witty, but also like some people took this as like an actual guide to like get a woman. So fascinating. Yeah.

0

794.274 - 820.644 Pip Rasmussen

So fascinating that it is so different from how ancient Greek thought about romantic love. where it was more kind of like mythical and I guess like tragic and big and devastating. And here it's a bit more like logical, right? It's like how to get the girl. It's more about like marriage and about compliance, I think, which is so fascinating. All right, well, let's head to China.

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820.704 - 828.411 Pip Rasmussen

You did a lot of research around China and the early kind of poetry and cultural references of romantic love.

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828.391 - 851.057 Dee Salmon

Yeah, so this is really interesting because I think we see China as like quite a conservative kind of culture and place and that they weren't super bold in like declaring love for each other, which I think overall is true. But there were a few sort of key moments in Chinese history, for example, in the Tang Dynasty, which was 618 to 907 CE.

0

851.037 - 872.438 Dee Salmon

There was a bunch of like classical Chinese poetry that was like very emboldened, like yearning, like really rich devotion of people like declaring their love. But something that I found really interesting though in ancient China was that they often gave gifts to lovers to sort of show their like appreciation and their love for people. So it wasn't necessarily like words. Yeah.

872.418 - 893.545 Dee Salmon

Um, things kind of like hairpins, jade pendants, they had spices in these like little satin bags that they would like wear on their sleeves, classic things like rings and bracelets. But one thing that really stood out to me was giving somebody a comb. So giving somebody a comb meant like one of the deepest, like symbolic things to be like, I want to be with you for the rest of my life.

893.625 - 899.132 Dee Salmon

And it was like a really beautiful way to express like super, super deep emotional love for somebody.

Chapter 6: How did romantic love evolve in the 19th century?

899.173 - 906.267 Dee Salmon

Yeah. Even like an article that I read, they said a comb like symbolizes being like, I want to be entangled with you for the rest of my life.

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906.407 - 909.173 Pip Rasmussen

And I was like, oh, that is so beautiful, isn't it?

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909.233 - 921.495 Dee Salmon

And when you think about like, and you see like maybe pictures, maybe you haven't seen these before, but like, you know, those like beautiful, like beautiful, pearl inlay combs. Like they were just like unbelievable. I feel like I've seen them at museums. I was about to say that.

0

921.735 - 934.712 Dee Salmon

And now I'm kind of understand like the significance of that and like such a beautiful object and like how culturally symbolic it meant in a love sense. And yeah, I just found that really fascinating and I'd never, never really investigated that before.

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934.812 - 935.873 Pip Rasmussen

That is so cool.

935.933 - 942.822 Dee Salmon

So yeah, it goes to show that there are different ways that yeah, like people in all different cultures have been showing their love. Yes.

942.842 - 966.027 Pip Rasmussen

And we will say like while we were investigating this, which is an important thing to note that like this was kind of a small part of society, right? Like love, which we're going to unpack and get into soon, but love was romantic love in the way that we kind of think about it today was something that wasn't the norm. And yes, there are all these kind of references and poetry and writings and

966.007 - 990.248 Pip Rasmussen

and, you know, symbolism, but that was the majority of love. It wasn't really thought of in that sense. Like marriage, the union between two people and sex wasn't actually linked to the romantic love that we know today. Let's quickly head over to India because there were also – A lot of historical references to romantic love that we might think about today.

990.348 - 1012.483 Pip Rasmussen

So Indian traditions embraced a spiritual dimension to love, right? There's karma, which is sexual pleasure, and tringara, which is passionate emotional intimacy. They weren't viewed as shameful, but rather as something that was like joyous and sacred aspects of human existence that served as a pathway to higher spiritual consciousness. So I think when we think about, you know,

Chapter 7: What are the modern implications of romantic love?

1099.847 - 1118.612 Pip Rasmussen

And why? So let's start with the Middle Ages. So there was a gradual shift that started to happen during that time. And then there was a really strong pivotal shift in the Romantic era, which we'll chat about later. But during the medieval times in Europe, the ideals of chivalry and courtly love introduced a new kind of passion.

0

1118.953 - 1133.528 Dee Salmon

Courtly love is so fascinating and it's kind of crazy to see the cultural impact and where it all began. Basically, who started this idea of courtly love? So it started in southern France with these basically men

0

1133.508 - 1158.57 Dee Salmon

lyrical poet musicians called troubadours they would go around the courts they would sing songs all about this like secretive unrequited and unattainable love but it's always something that was seen outside of marriage yeah exactly which was pretty um interesting for that time because obviously as we said like marriage was like where they all thought everything was going to happen but the rules started to change so as this like

0

1158.55 - 1186.549 Dee Salmon

courtly love became like way more popular it kind of fell into the hands of some royals right so there was this queen Eleanor of Aquitaine she was famous for being the first queen of France and then she had a second marriage and moved to England and she became queen of England so she basically took these ideas from France brought it into England and that's kind of where it was started to be practiced in like English courts from like the 1300s to the 1500s

0

1186.529 - 1206.712 Dee Salmon

This is what made me like gag at this day. This queen had a daughter called Marie. And from what I was reading about this, the only kind of conclusion I could figure out is that they were obsessed with this idea of courtly love and they would like, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, talk about it. Girlies at brunch. Girlies at brunch, like mother and daughter time talking about this courtly love.

1207.153 - 1231.194 Dee Salmon

And they actually got so serious about it that they made these like strict rules that people had to follow if they wanted to basically practice courtly love. What were the rules? The rules were this. So true love was viewed as existing outside of marriage. Jealousy increases the feeling of love and you cannot love without jealousy. Interesting. Low-key toxic, but okay. Secrecy is crucial.

1231.314 - 1249.051 Dee Salmon

So, basically, if the love was made public, it was not going to endure. Like, you were never going to, like, make it work. Also, they talked a lot about the rule of, like, if love is really easy to attain, then it's, like, not really love. Like, you have to, like, go through adversity and it has to be. Love is hard. Love is hard to get. Exactly.

Chapter 8: Are we entering a post-romantic era in today's society?

1249.191 - 1269.062 Dee Salmon

Wow. And interestingly as well, they basically made it so that like the lady or the princesses or the high noble women in these scenarios were the prize and the men who were trying to get them, a.k.a. their knights, were like the servants. So there was this power dynamic of like the woman was like the dominatrix kind of vibe.

0

1269.963 - 1274.17 Pip Rasmussen

So she might have been married to someone, but it was all around her having a lover boy.

0

1274.21 - 1287.23 Dee Salmon

Exactly. Exactly. So the night was basically submissive. So they actually got together and they would talk about this and then they would like sponsor poets to like write about these like courtly love stories and spread the good word of courtly love essentially because they were obsessed with it.

0

1287.29 - 1290.415 Pip Rasmussen

They were like spread the rumor, we're all having affairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

0

1290.535 - 1297.666 Dee Salmon

So this basically had a massive lasting impact on romantic love and this like performance of love.

1297.686 - 1318.444 Pip Rasmussen

100%. 100%. Even hearing you say that, I think about how much of those ideas around love we still are obsessed with, right? Like this idea that it is meant to be hard, that, you know, it's hotter if it's secret, that, you know, that it's not something that comes easily and like, you know, the yearning and the unrequited and the jealousy, like that makes so much sense.

1318.424 - 1340.027 Dee Salmon

Yeah. So this basically had such a lasting impact. And what we always see is that it goes to media. And at that time, literature. So it was like these poets and then people were writing stories. And it basically created this whole new genre called courtly chivalric romance. And it was from the 12th to the 15th centuries. So these stories were all about like the knight's

1340.007 - 1360.21 Dee Salmon

pining over these like noble women. Again, what you were saying, the unattainableness of it all, you know, yearning. So they basically had to like suffer for this woman, go on quests, like devote their life to this love and be like these lover boys who never actually got the woman essentially. So fascinating. It's crazy. It's so wild.

1360.23 - 1382.388 Dee Salmon

So remember when I said that they were talking to these poets, right? And they were basically like, can you write these stories about courtly love? We're obsessed. Yeah. One of the poets that was like in their court is like one of the most famous courtly love like poets in these centuries. His name and I'm going to really fuck this up because it's French. Christian de Troyes. Yeah.

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