Chapter 1: What has changed in intimacy and desire over the last 20 years?
I have never seen people wanting more sex from talking about why they don't want sex.
Joining us for a second time, world-famous psychotherapist best known for her extensive work on relationships, Esther is the best-selling author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs.
Start with what you have appreciated about the other in the last week before you become experts on the shortcomings of the other person. If you want to change the other, change yourself.
What if you don't want to change?
Penny and I, something we've worked really hard on is trying to even out the mental load in our relationship.
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Chapter 2: Can humans truly fall in love with AI?
I have often said to mothers in this instance, you've got to go away for a week. I want you to have the experience of trusting your partner.
myself as someone who grew up in a household where there was really no conflict now when i have conflict in relationships i find it really tricky this has been a constant issue in our relationship is this mismatching need for affection it's so interesting that in the person that you want to be closest to sometimes it's just so hard to reveal that vulnerability of like i made the mistake there the person who apologizes first has the power
Well, hello to everyone who listens, watches us regularly, but a very, very special hello, well, first of all, to our guests, but also the group of people who tune in once every four years to The Imperfects when we have Esther Perel on. So welcome back. It's been a while. Good to have you back. Because we have Astaire on today.
Chapter 3: How can mismatched affection needs affect relationships?
And, geez, we're excited. We're excited. It's good to see you again, Astaire.
Good to see you. All of you. You I didn't meet before.
Yes. I was violently ill. Not that people want to think about that right now.
Chapter 4: What are bids for connection in relationships?
No need to say violently. You can just say ill.
No, I need to say it violently because I remember thinking when I started to get sick, nothing can stop me from doing this interview, but something stopped me. And I feel very happy I got another chance.
I just hope you learn to overcome FOMO.
That's very hard to get over, very hard. For the several people out there who don't know who Esther Perel is, what are you doing? But also, this is huge. Do you want to explain who this wonderful woman is?
Chapter 5: Is it possible to repair trust after a breach?
Joining us for a second time, world-famous psychotherapist best known for her extensive work on relationships, love, desire and intimacy, Esther is the best-selling author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs. She has posted Where Should We Begin podcast for nearly 10 years, a podcast with millions and millions of listeners worldwide.
Esther serves as an organizational consultant for Fortune 500 companies and is fluent in nine languages. Esther's TED Talk, Rethinking Infidelity, a talk for anyone who has ever loved, is one of the most viewed talks of all time.
Last time we had Esther on the show, we talked about embracing the imperfections of your relationship, how your emotional state affects the people you love, and how the thing that initially attracts you to someone so often ends up being a reason for tension.
Esther grew up watching her parents, survivors, who deliberately and fiercely chose joy in the face of everything and somewhere in that learnt that love isn't just something that happens to us, it's something that we tend to. You've carried that lesson into every room, every conversation and every life you've touched.
You didn't just study intimacy, you lived it, honoured it and gifted it back to the world. We are so happy you're back with us again today.
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Chapter 6: What is post-traumatic growth in relationships?
It's a treat to be back.
So it is nearly 20 years since Mating in Captivity, a book around desire and intimacy. So interested to learn or hear from you what has changed in the space of intimacy and desire and what has stayed the same over the last 20 years. I'm sure it's something you've thought about a lot.
I mean, I thought about it a lot actually recently when I wrote a new forward to the book because we're having a 20th anniversary edition of Mating in Captivity. And I was trying to remember.
I actually called my agent, my editor, my publisher, and one of the couples that's in the book to remember what was the context of then, what led me to write about all of this, and what were the central questions that I was asking. So what stays the same is actually the same questions, right?
Chapter 7: How does the mental load impact relationships?
Why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex? Necessarily. You can have loving relationships that are sexless. Why does sex sometimes lead to children and children create an erotic disaster in couples? Why is the erotic so forbidden? What is it about this nature of the forbidden and the transgressive that can lure quite a bit of people?
Why does good sex so often fade even in couples who love each other as much as ever? When you love, how does it feel? And when you desire, how is it different?
Chapter 8: What role does workplace culture play in our relationships?
I think I would ask the same questions today. And some of the foundational truths around these relational, complex relational issues, I don't think have changed. In the same way, I'll give you just 10 situations or however many that I didn't experience back then.
It's like you have threshold moments in your therapy practice when one day something comes into the room and you haven't been part of that conversation before. You haven't been part of the conversation about ethical non-monogamy and polyamory. You haven't been part of the conversation of IVF and egg donor.
You haven't been part of the conversations of gay couples marrying and having children and having surrogates help them create families. You haven't been part of the trans movement. You haven't been part of people who go on Field, which is a dating app, not just a dating app, an app where people meet around questions of non-monogamy and polyamory. You haven't had dating apps 20 years ago.
People still used to meet. There was just the beginnings of social media. So all these situations, and I'll give you the latest one on where should we begin. I just did a podcast session last week with my first ever couple between a human and an AI.
Whoa. Wow.
So this is just a very short progression of what has remained the same and what are some of the situations over the 20 years that have entered my office.
That's something I'm so fascinated to go and listen to. But can you give us a brief sort of summary of that chat?
So is a human and an AI having a relationship? So are you on the podcast talking to the AI?
Wow. I talk to Astrid.
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