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The Imperfects

Hamish Macdonald - After The Facts

29 Mar 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

0.031 - 22.886 Hamish Macdonald

There was a point in time where we imagined like a post-truth future in which none of us really knew what was real and what was fake. And I think probably the reality that we're all experiencing is that we're kind of there now. Certainly. The algorithms are feeding off basic functions in our brain, you know, what we react to, what we have the emotional response to.

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22.927 - 39.265 Hamish Macdonald

The issue is, are these algorithms doing something back to us? I think we're all going to have to arm ourselves better to confront the onslaught, the waves of information pollution that are coming our way, particularly with AI's development.

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39.285 - 42.949 Hugh van Cuylenburg

I think my gut says we'll figure it out.

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44.328 - 66.538 Hamish Macdonald

humans are pretty resilient as well you know and like if you think back not that long ago the cuban missile crisis might have been happening or chernobyl was happening and people really genuinely thought this might be the end of the world yeah but humans have a remarkable capacity to move through those things

70.383 - 97.374 Hugh van Cuylenburg

He's back. He is back. And boy, oh, boy, is this something to celebrate because for the first time, as Bridge, producer Bridge, just pointed out, never in the history of The Imperfects, and this is huge. This is huge. Never in the history of The Imperfects has a guest gone from just a guest to expert on an Academy of Imperfection episode. Hamish, welcome to the club of one.

98.355 - 99.817 Hamish Macdonald

I feel deeply honoured.

Chapter 2: How are algorithms impacting the way we perceive facts?

100.638 - 108.807 Hamish Macdonald

I didn't know the club existed. It didn't actually. It didn't. Until moments ago. You started it. But yeah, I'm glad I've met the entry requirements.

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108.907 - 109.468 Hugh van Cuylenburg

You did. Yeah.

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109.448 - 111.45 Hamish Macdonald

I'm not quite sure how I have, but anyway.

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111.57 - 117.295 Hugh van Cuylenburg

No, well, I mean, that's the first fact of the episode. We'll be getting to many more, hopefully.

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117.575 - 120.978 Ryan Shelton

Trying to work out why Hamish's voice makes me nervous, and I've just worked out why.

Chapter 3: What challenges do we face in distinguishing real from fake information?

121.018 - 146.523 Ryan Shelton

Because for our entire live show that we did, Hamish comes up on the screen and does a breaking news report, and then the second that finishes, we would dance and sing, and I'm not overly comfortable dancing and singing in front of a very big crowd, and I had to do it. Yeah. 12 times. And every time your face and voice appeared, I would start to get nervous.

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146.663 - 159.859 Hamish Macdonald

I think I probably knew when every one of those live shows happened because you'd get random texts from friends. You know, Susie Yusuf would be like, hey, I've just seen you. How are you? I haven't thought of you or texted you in months. How are you? But I'm at the Imperfect's live.

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160.9 - 161.521 Hugh van Cuylenburg

Yeah, that's true.

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Chapter 4: How can media literacy help combat misinformation?

161.541 - 163.503 Hugh van Cuylenburg

Yeah, we spent a lot of time with you without you knowing.

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163.663 - 167.047 Hamish Macdonald

Yeah. Anyway, well, thank you for having me. Then and again now.

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167.067 - 167.788 Hugh van Cuylenburg

Oh, pleasure.

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168.108 - 178.864 Ryan Shelton

Pleasure. I just wanted a quick bio because I think most people remember your episode. It was so amazing. But I guess the bio will help explain why we have you here as an expert.

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179.144 - 181.207 Unknown

Sure. Can we keep the bio brief?

181.708 - 182.91 Ryan Shelton

No. Because I'll go bright red.

Chapter 5: What examples illustrate the consequences of misinformation?

183.05 - 188.037 Ryan Shelton

No, we cannot. It's your fault because you've done so much in your life, so you only have yourself to blame.

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188.898 - 193.725 Hugh van Cuylenburg

But I'll do it quickly. If this helps, it's actually for the first time not a very flattering bio. Oh, great, great, great, great.

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194.768 - 208.811 Ryan Shelton

As you said, Ryan, it's an extreme privilege that we welcome Hamish McDonald back into the studio as one of Australia's most awarded and loved journalists. Hamish has travelled all over the world delivering us on-the-ground, real-time updates about conflicts, natural and man-inflicted disasters.

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209.612 - 218.947 Ryan Shelton

For his work, Hamish has received a Walkley Award and a Human Rights Australia Award for his journalism. He was GQ's Man of the Year in 2012. Whoa! What did he get for that?

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219.008 - 233.83 Hamish Macdonald

Okay, let's slow down. GQ? I think I was, I think it was a subcategory. Just, I feel like given facts are so important. I don't think I was the GQ man. I think they have like media, sport, you know.

234.071 - 234.351 Ryan Shelton

Yeah.

Chapter 6: How does AI contribute to the spread of disinformation?

234.451 - 260.707 Ryan Shelton

Your sport? Yeah, obviously. And in 2016, Hamish was awarded a Neiman Fellowship at Harvard University. Hamish was a previous host of Q&A on ABC, Channel 10's The Project, and now is working as morning's presenter on ABC Sydney Radio. Hamish also co-hosts Global Roaming, which I listen to every single night because my wife listens to it every night in bed. It's wonderful.

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261.368 - 262.209 Ryan Shelton

Good to be there as well.

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264.232 - 272.082 Josh van Cuylenburg

No wonder you get nervous.

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274.199 - 282.18 Unknown

Hamish has dedicated his life for him. The unknown throuple. I didn't mean to divulge that.

282.201 - 293.121 Ryan Shelton

Anyway, moving on very quickly. It's one of Penny's demands before we go to bed. You did say you'd go red.

Chapter 7: What strategies can we adopt to navigate the information landscape?

293.662 - 308.711 Ryan Shelton

Put Hamish's voice on, please. Hamish has dedicated his life to reporting the facts, but what are facts and how much does their truth matter? Is that a question? No, that's not my first question. That's a rhetorical part of the fire.

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309.993 - 313.099 Hugh van Cuylenburg

What are facts? We keep hearing the word, but what actually are they?

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314.243 - 322.824 Ryan Shelton

So your TV show, The Matter of Facts, I've got a whole description of it here, but maybe it's – I think people would prefer to hear you describe what it is.

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323.867 - 342.612 Hamish Macdonald

Well, I mean, it's just basically an exploration of the – Reality that I think we're all confronting right now that it's becoming increasingly hard to discern what a fact is. You know, like it is not a simple question to answer anymore what a fact is because there are contested facts. People are fighting over facts.

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343.072 - 354.324 Hamish Macdonald

We all know, and I'm sure every person listening to this will think of an experience recently where either they themselves or someone around them will say, oh, I've seen this thing. I don't know if it's real.

355.425 - 355.565 Unknown

Mm-hmm.

Chapter 8: What hopeful perspectives can we find in the face of these challenges?

355.585 - 355.725 Unknown

Mm-hmm.

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356.077 - 386.424 Hugh van Cuylenburg

I mean, a recent one that I can remember is the Jim Carrey clone debate. Is Jim Carrey the real Jim Carrey or is it a clone? It seems like he's had some cosmetic surgery done and he appeared at like an awards thing and the internet went into a frenzy. And the common assumption was, oh, well. He's a clone. Not that he's followed a history of people getting plastic surgery, but no, clone.

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387.085 - 413.809 Hamish Macdonald

I think there was a point in time where we imagined like a post-truth future, a future in which none of us really knew what was real and what was fake. And I think probably the reality that we're all experiencing is that we're kind of there now. We're well and truly into that space and we're all probably being tricked, duped at certain points in time. If we're not...

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413.789 - 437.141 Hamish Macdonald

We're not sure whether we are. And so we're having to ask ourselves those questions. And essentially our whole information ecosystem is being heavily polluted, sometimes deliberately, sometimes just by machines and computers and friends and family spreading stuff that they don't realize is false. But everything that we consume is being polluted.

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437.201 - 463.521 Hamish Macdonald

If you just imagine a big information stream that's constantly spewing at us, You could argue that it's always been polluted, but I think the proliferation of digital media, social media, AI generated stuff is meaning that more and more of that is not trustworthy, is not what it looks like at first. And so that's also sowing doubt in our own minds. They call this the liar's dividend.

464.021 - 471.15 Hamish Macdonald

It's sowing doubt in our own minds about even the stuff that is true. So we now don't really know what's fact.

471.89 - 484.343 Ryan Shelton

So I've been off – I haven't been on social media for nearly a month now and my life feels so much better. I feel so much happier and just I feel much better because of it. You've been off social media for how long now?

486.746 - 491.41 Hamish Macdonald

Four years. Four years. In 2026. 2026, yeah. Yeah, four or five years, yeah.

492.071 - 498.238 Ryan Shelton

Would you say – I mean, I'm interested to know how you feel after – if I'm feeling that after a month or maybe this is just your normal now.

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