Chapter 1: Why is discussing non-consensus reality considered scary?
it's a scary podcast for me because i feel like you're because i know a lot of the things that you've said and i've related to them and i've said okay this makes sense why is that scary Okay, so it's scary because it's not consensus reality. And, you know, because it's not consensus reality, we could talk about it over hot chocolate, you know, near a fire or something.
But here we're talking about it and lots of people are going to be listening.
Yes.
So that is somewhat...
Yeah, that's the hurdle that we all have to get over. And the good thing about this is it really is just us talking.
Right.
You know, and there are a lot of people that are going to listen, but they're just people too.
That's true. And they've probably had these experiences.
Some of them have. Yeah.
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Chapter 2: What experiences are linked to UFO abduction narratives?
So what I did was I was very interested in – I was working. You know, your parents, you tell them you want to study religion and they're like, why not be a doctor, right? So I was going to college but I kept taking courses in religion and philosophy. And when I got out, I got a job doing technology and things like that. And I made all right money but I still read about religion and philosophy.
So I figured if I could get scholarships to continue that I would. And I kept getting scholarships, and that's how I got my PhD in religion. In religious studies, by the way, we actually – we're not ministers or anything like that. We don't advocate for any religious tradition. We study them. And since most people in the world are religious in some way, it's a good thing to know.
But how did I get into studying UFOs? So I studied Christian history, and that's what I did for a long time until I was what's called a full professor. You can't go any higher. You're a full professor. That's it. And – I studied these things called ascent narratives. So ascent narratives are when people levitate in the Christian tradition.
People either levitate or they see things that they call angels or demons and things like this. And I always studied them from a historical perspective.
And I found that going through looking at these ascent narratives through the historical record at the Vatican, actually, I kept coming across aerial phenomena in the historical records from 1,000 years ago, from 500 years ago, from very recently. And I recognized that this was happening in UFO literature. And so I started to look at abductions and UFO sightings and things like that.
And I wanted to do a cross-cultural analysis of this. And that was in 2012. And that's how I got into this. I just want to point out that not all abductions happen in your sleep. A lot of abductions actually happen in daylight. But I do agree with you that something's happening in your brain and you're perceiving something and you called it, is there some type of mental gateway?
And I think there's absolutely a mental gateway. And Does this discount that this is objective of us? Like, you know, the question is, is this something subjective or is this something objective of us? My opinion at this point is it's something that is objective of us. There's something that we're accessing. And I don't think it's within our space-time reality, to tell you the truth.
So you think it's from somewhere else?
I do, but that doesn't, I mean, it doesn't have to be a location, you know, a geography.
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Chapter 3: How do psychedelics relate to perceived experiences of nonhuman intelligences?
Like, what are you saying? Like, can you show me these things? Are there photos of them? No, we're just drawing. We're writing it down on paper. We're pretty sure we have these equations and we know what it is. Like, what?
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, why am I supposed to believe you? Because you guys are PhDs? Like, what? This is nuts. But because this is like a field of science, this is a field of study that's universally accepted. we've given them a pass to talk about crazy stuff. But if you want to talk about crazy things in terms of
encountering some sort of thing some entity some consciousness that exists in an alternative realm that has access to this realm occasionally or perhaps that you can transcend your normal state of consciousness and access
this other realm, occasionally, through some methods, whether it's through meditation, through psychedelic trips, through something, near-death experiences, something happens that perturbs the normal state of reality, and you have...
brief access to this transcendent experience that everyone has talked about all of the great prophets all of the great saints and religious figures have talked about from the beginning of written history
Yeah. So I think that it's not just that we give those physics guys a pass and girls. OK, we just know what they produce actually is creates our world. Right. The computers we look at and the technologies we use, even the structures we live in. And so this is what prompted me to go back into our historical record and look at like the writings of Plato again.
And some of these people that you're talking about, like the great minds, right? And I recognize that, say, Plato, who writes about his mentor, Socrates, who's, by the way, killed by his country, you know, he's killed by Athens, the town he lives in, not the town, but the state he lives in. And he's executed for being an atheist, by the way.
And if you look at what he's talking about, he's actually talking about this space. He's actually talking about having a vision of something that we can't see. And he calls it the good. And he says it's the best thing. And he says it makes you do things that are just. And you don't do them because they're the right thing to do. You do them because you really want to do them.
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Chapter 4: What is the significance of ascent narratives in religious studies?
Part of me is like, you're just lazy. Why don't you just go start the practice and study it and figure out how to make it happen more often? But for whatever reason, I have zero desire to do that. I don't know why.
There might be some wisdom there.
I don't know. I go back and forth with whether or not it's laziness. I don't know what it is. But there's obviously a fascinating aspect to lucid dreaming, to what is going on there.
Yeah.
How are you managing this weird thing that for most of us, you wake up and you go, God, what the hell was that? Why was Godzilla in my dream? Right. Why was I on a skateboard? That's right. It's just like weirdness to it. And then there's people that try to interpret that with like far too much confidence.
Yes, I think so, too. I think so, too. So in in Tibet, there's a Tibetan dream yoga. And that's what they do. They basically teach you how to do – and you have to have a teacher, by the way, because they say it can be dangerous.
Dangerous.
Yeah. So I think that's probably why you think you're not doing it because I don't think you're lazy, frankly. Like I know the kinds of things you do. I know that's not part.
Yeah, but I am lazy. That's what's crazy.
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Chapter 5: What historical significance does the Vatican's archive hold?
Many people may think, oh, how boring, right? But original Keplers and Copernicuses and, you know, every single thing that people, scientists from 1200, 1300 on up, thought about space and about magnetism and propulsion and things like that. It's all there, every one of them. And so you go in there and we had full access to it. Why does the Vatican have that? Well, the Vatican would have it.
So because, you know, who was doing this 500 years ago? There was no United States. So, of course, they're going to have it. They also have an amazing meteorite collection. They have a lot of really cool things there. And again, they're these monks. They're astrophysicist monks. And they're just hanging out there. They've got the best lattes, by the way.
Italians.
Yeah.
They know how to eat.
My experience, though, of the Vatican itself was different than the archive. And I've actually heard you talk about the Vatican, and I agree. Like you said, I saw you talking about it, and you said, you know, I'm looking around, and I see all this stuff, and they stole it from all these countries. It was like all this booty. The Vatican is filled with it. That was my experience as well.
So when I went, we did the scholarship, of course, but we also – did the touristy thing. So, you know, we went and looked at all the museum and everything like that. And everything I saw seemed to me to be like, you know, colonization, you know, the colonization of these people and taking their stuff and the colonization of these people and taking their stuff. And they have it all there.
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Chapter 6: How does the conversation address the concept of angels and demons?
And when you're inside the Vatican, by the way, it's different than when you're outside of it, because, you know, when you're outside of it, there are those guys that that the Swiss guards. Well, those guys are militia when you go inside. And they're everywhere.
The thing that fascinated me about it was just the volume.
Yeah.
The volume. It's like they're hoarders for insane art.
Yeah.
I mean, there's stuff that should be in its own room, and it's just stacked next to other stuff that also should be in its own room. It's almost like they don't have enough space for all the stuff that they have. That's what it seems like. Well, it's kind of like this place. If you see our stack of art that we have out there, I have stuff that I need to put on the walls.
I just have too much of it because so many people send me cool shit.
This is such an awesome studio. Thank you. It reminded me immediately when I walked into it. I was like, okay, I want to take photos of everything. But I wouldn't. I didn't. But I did want to.
Well, you can. It's okay. Yeah, it's just art.
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Chapter 7: What is the connection between UFO phenomena and historical religious experiences?
There's – The thing about the Vatican, well, I got very fortunate that we had a professor that took us on a tour. And my children were pretty young at the time. And when we went, we were outside in this courtyard area where the pine cone is. And he said, do you know the significance of the pine cone? And I said, does it represent the pineal gland? And he said, yes. And so he got so excited.
I did not know this.
Yeah. Wow. It's also in the Pope's staff. If you look at the staff that the pope carries, the staff has a pine cone. See if you can get a photo of the staff the pope carries. There's a pine cone in the center of it. The pine cone, which is depicted in many, many ancient pieces of art, religious art, and it represents the pineal gland because it's similar in appearance to a pine cone.
So this pine cone, which also I'm sure probably represents the Fibonacci sequence, which also represents itself in the pine cone, that's the seed of the soul. That's where DMT is made.
This might be the gateway place.
Yeah. Well, the reason why they have an immense pine cone, I mean, that's not an accident.
No, of course not. No.
So here it is.
Fascinating.
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Chapter 8: How does the discussion on technology relate to human evolution?
It's probably Sumerian with that god that has that – I mean that's the Anunnaki carried that thing. And the fact that they're holding it specifically, that they're telling you, like, this is what's up. This is the connection. This is the connection to the gods.
Did you guess this?
Well, I knew that the pineal gland looked like a pine cone.
And so when he asked you, you just knew this?
Yeah.
That's pretty amazing.
Well, I'd already had a lot of experiences with DMT.
Right.
So I already knew. I knew there's a realm accessible to anybody that gets in contact with that stuff that is beyond imagination. Right. It is more real than reality. And when you go there, you've been there before. The most bizarre feeling about it is this terrifying fear while it's happening and then incredible peace when you get in there and a recognition like, oh, I know this place.
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