1112: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part Two
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How did Jay Dobyns balance undercover work with family life?
Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. I tried to defend myself. I said, I'm not a light switch. I can't turn this on and off. I have to be on all the time. People that treat what I do for a living like a hobby end up dead. And then her response was, I understand that. But when you come to this house, you better install a dimmer switch and dial that attitude down. Because if you can't do that, you're not welcome here.
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. astronaut, national security advisor, or Russian chess grandmaster. If you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about it, and of course I appreciate it when you do, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, part two with Jay Dobbins. If you haven't heard part one, definitely go check that out. We're going undercover in the Hells Angels, a fascinating episode so far. All right, let's jump back into it with Jay Dobbins. You mentioned in the book that a small number of outlaw bikers have a lot of influence over the more restrained guys.
There's career criminals that do nothing but drugs and crime, and they have a lot of influence over the other guys who maybe have functional lives outside the gang. And that drives a lot of the violence and crime. And my very limited experience with... say Hell's Angels in New York City, there's a headquarters there. And if you go to the convenience store or any of the bars nearby, they're in there and you can say like, oh, Hell's Angels, wow, are you from New York? No, I actually am from California. I just drove here over the past couple of weeks. Wow, how long does that take? Now we do it in five days, but it's exhausting. You're small talking with them about something they did, but you're not like, so did you bring meth with you? Like you don't say anything like that. And they're perfectly friendly. They don't kick you out of the bar or push you off the bar. Well, it's almost confusing.
Not every Hells Angels patch that I crossed paths with was a murderer or a rapist or a gun runner or a drug trafficker. There were plenty of them that I crossed paths with that weren't actively, at least actively, involved in criminal activity. When I crossed paths with those people who weren't actively criminal, like, I didn't have much interest in them. Like, why? Unless that guy could open a door to someone who was involved in that, like I didn't have time to waste on those guys. One of the positions they take in their defense is that we're a club, we're not a gang. There's two different definitions. They actually fit both. we're not an international organized crime syndicate. Well, they do fit the definitions of that.
But one of their statements is that we're not a criminal organization, an organization that may have criminals within it. Like the police. There's some accuracy to that too. But if you're part of an organization and your organization is saturated with criminals, then yes, you are part of a criminal organization. You don't get to split the hair on that
Yeah, that's where the lawyers come in and they go, we're going to argue this way. And the prosecutor says, we're going to argue the other way. Although you mentioned in the book something interesting that I'd never heard before, which is often undercover police or law enforcement, they end up sympathizing with the gangs or they even form their own motorcycle clubs like cops. having a motorcycle club or gang or something. What's that all about? What's going on there?
I think occasionally there is some Stockholm syndrome that occurs. I was very aware of that. I worked hard to avoid that. I woke up every day and reminded myself of who I was, what team I was playing for, and that if these guys figure out who I am, I'm not long for this earth. I reminded myself of that. But There is maybe a sexy, glamorous element to that lifestyle, to the freedom of it.
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