Marilynn Larew’s political thrillers involve “sex, money and terrorism” in exotic settings expedited by a mettlesome female James Bond called Lee Carruthers. Hi there I’m your host Jenny Wheeler and today Marilynn talks about the secret life that so vividly contrasts with her academic career and what she’d do differently second time round. But before we talk to Marilynn, just a reminder that the show notes for this Binge Reading episode can be found on the website, The Joys of Binge Reading.com That’s where you’ll find a full transcript of our discussion, plus links to Marilynn’s books and website, as well as details about how to subscribe to our podcast so you don’t miss future episodes. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: How Lee Carruthers is an escape into a fantasy life Her secret Bronze Age passion When characters refuse to do what you tell them Blending “pantser” with “plotter” in her political mysteries The writers she admires most What she’d do differently second time around Where to find Marilynn Larew: Website: http://marilynnlarew.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marilynn.larew Twitter: https://twitter.com/marilynn_larew What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: But now, here’s Marilynn. . Hello there Marilynn and welcome to the show, it’s great to have you with us. Jenny: Beginning at the beginning . . . .Was there a “Once Upon A Time” moment when you realised you had to write fiction or your life would somehow be incomplete? And if so, was there a catalyst? Marilynn Larew, mystery author Marilynn: My cousin Bobby was in town just recently, and she told me I had always wanted to write mysteries. So despite the fact that I can’t remember it, I must have said it. What the real catalyst was for starting now was when I finished my dissertation. Most people when they finish their dissertations plan to write books exposing how awful the program is. I wrote a book about a hard nosed detective. It got me an agent and almost sold; but it didn’t. So when it didn’t sell, I went back to what I was supposed to be doing, which was teaching history. Jenny: I see! So you sort of had an early start at trying to be a writer, but then decided on academia instead- is that what happened? Marilynn: Well I had finished my dissertation, and I had a job. That was what I was supposed to be doing. So I put my writing skills to academic purposes. It was not until later that I settled down and tried to learn how to write a novel. Jenny: I see. And so that book- did it ever see the light of day? Marilynn: No, and I’m fairly glad it didn’t because I don’t think it was a very good book! Jenny: Your Lee Carruthers series revolves around “sex, money and terrorism” – and Lee is like a female James Bond – deadly in action and very lucky. What made you decide on the political thriller as your chosen genre? Marilynn: I decided to write what I liked to read. I like to read political thrillers located in places where I’ve been, or where I’d like to go. So that’s what Lee does. Jenny: Your work as a lecturer in terrorism must have given you a strong background to work from – but how does an academic living in the “200 year old brick farmhouse in southern Pennsylvania” become a terrorism expert? Dead in Dubai – Book Two Marilynn: Yes, that’s pretty much what it’s like! I dream up terrorism stories, but I put them in places that are idyllic. Jenny: Lee has a very colourful back story – and it seems there could be more interesting revelations to come. . . In the Book Three – Hong Kong Central for example we discover her father had a led double life she knows nothing about until after he dies. . . Tell us a little bit about her background – Marilynn: The Carruthers Family is from Down East Maine, actually not very far from the Canadian border. Lee is the third generation in her family to deal with intelligence matters. Her grandmother ran an escape route for downed Allied fliers for the OSS in World War II. (Edit note: the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) was a wartime intelligence agency of the United States during World War II, and a predecessor of the modern Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)). Her father, who was not the CIA Officer she thought he was, was actually a CIA Analyst working in the Headquarters Office in Langley. Lee managed to become an analyst as well, although not for long at the Headquarters in Langley. When she discovered her father’s second life, and his other daughter and second wife; it almost destroyed her. A friend of her father’s, Sydney Worthington, took her under his wing and posted her to Beirut. That was where she began doing those little jobs she does for Sydney. He sent her up to the Bekaa Valley to meet an agent and pick up a file, because she had the best Arabic in the office. When she successfully completed that job, he found other jobs for her. So she had to acquire a whole skill set different from that of a CIA Analyst. Jenny: Was the Lee Carruthers series the first fiction you wrote – and did you always intend it was going to be a series? Marilynn: I think I did. When I finished the first book, I had a link to the second book, and a link to the second book to the third book and now I’m trying to figure out the fourth book. Jenny: I read in an interview that the fourth book is going to be involve Isis and is going to revolve around drones and set in Boston, is that right? Marilynn: Well it was when I said it. But Lee and I decided we didn’t like the idea, so we changed our minds. I’ll tell you what I said – or rather what Lee said – to Sydney in the only scene I have written – “Yes I did go to Boston. I didn’t like the weather, I didn’t like the work or working in an office. I don’t play well with others”. Lee objected to Boston weather Jenny: I see she went to Boston to join that friend of hers because in the other books, that’s always presented as a possibility isn’t it? I understand what you’re meaning. That’s great! Have you ever lived in Boston yourself? Marilynn: I have never lived there, but I’ve been there. I like it very much, but I didn’t find that I wanted to write about it. Nor did I find that I wanted to write about technology. Jenny: Lee moves around a lot and the exotic settings – in Dubai, and Istanbul for example – are comprehensive and real – do you travel to do the research before you write them? Dubai – Setting for Book Two Marilynn: Not really. I travel on the internet. I’ve not been to Morocco or Dubai, but the wealth of information that I could find on the internet made me feel that I was really there when I was writing about it. The fact is that I’ve been to Hong Kong, and I like it very much. I have to tell you, that was the hardest book to write because I knew so much about the place. Jenny: And what about Istanbul? Marilynn: That is my favourite place in the world and I’m pretty sure that’s where Book Four is going to go. Istanbul – a favorite and likely setting of Book Four Jenny: There are three Lee Carruthers books – and then your fourth novel – Aftermath –– set in Baltimore in the 80s and featuring a middle aged PI named Ann Carter with a daughter old enough to be a lawyer. How did that book come about and do you plan more in that series? Marilynn: I started that book before I started the Carruthers series. I was stung by an insect, and I went into anaphylactic shock and had to be hauled off to the hospital in an ambulance. That introduced me to an EMT- and I had a character that I needed to find a story to go with. I started that book while I was still teaching and I wrote most of it, but then I got stuck. One of the problems with writing by the seat of your pants is sometimes, you just can’t get where you’re going or where you want to go. The trick is to put the project away for a while and let it sit while I worked on Lee Carruthers. Aftermath by Marilynn Larew Then I got stuck in the Hong Kong Central book, put that away and went back to Aftermath. It was not until I realised I was going to have to write about the Laotian jungle in Aftermath that I finished the book. Jenny: I haven’t actually read Aftermath yet I must admit, but I did see a reference. There was something about the Vietnam War and the demonstrations against the Vietnam War that features in that book because it’s set in the 80’s. Jenny: How did your work as a lecturer on the Vietnam War feed into Aftermath? Marilynn: In 1980, we were working in the aftermath of the War and all the problems with the aftermath of the War. Charlie McGee, the EMT, was a veteran and the second plot in the book about a Colonel gone missing was also part of the War. The war connection led me into writing those two plots. It was sort of difficult, actually. I was working in 1980, and if you think about it; most of the things we use today to find information and cell phones, the internet didn’t exist in those days. So we had to go back to good old gum shoe, old fashioned detective work, It was sometimes a little difficult to manage. Jenny: Yes, I was thinking that it would be difficult to write something when there were no cell phones or little technology; it would be a very different environment anyway, wouldn’t it? Marilynn: It was a very different environment, no computer at all. She had to type up her reports on a type writer. Jenny: I’m very impressed that you say you’re a “pantser” writer- those who aren’t familiar with that term are the writers that simply begin writing and keep going. Thrillers do often require a little bit more plotting, so you started as a pantser and you still are a pantser today? Or has your process evolved as you’ve got more books under your belt? Marilynn: I really tried to plot for each and every one of them. I just haven’t been able to do it. At some stage in the the plotting process, I just have to start writing. It helps that I usually know where I’m going and where I’m going to end. So a “pantser” is not as bad as it sounds. And a lot of times, things happen. They happen, and you just have to write them in. I had an idea for Book Four, and I just realised that Sydney wouldn’t do that. He just refused to do it, so I had to scrap that idea and go back to another one. Jenny: I think you’re right though; if you know where you want to end up, then it’s a matter of just working out a variety of ways you might get there. But it’s helpful to know where you’re ending up, isn’t it? Marilynn: It is. I just don’t know right now where I want to end up. Jenny: What do your readers tell you they like about your thrillers? Marilynn: The thing that pleases me most is readers saying they like the authenticity in the books. They feel real, and my editor tells me every time she edits one of my books is it’s as if she’s taken a field trip. I regard this as a compliment, because that’s what I’m going for. Although one of my readers- there’s a knife fight in the Dubai book, and one of my readers who is a retired special forces officer said he just couldn’t understand how she could deal with edged weapons which is what he called them. I’m afraid I answered that rather flippantly, because you don’t really expect a CIA Analyst to be able to fight with knives. But that was one of the skills she had to learn to stay alive while doing jobs for Sydney. Jenny: Yes, that’s right. She is quite a nifty martial arts expert at getting rid of guys when they attack her! Marilynn: That’s the only way she stays alive! Jenny: Have you ever done martial arts yourself? Marilynn: No, a little bit of yoga was the closest I ever got to martial arts! I must admit I was never very good at yoga. This is a dream of mine, that in another life I might have been like Lee. That’s the way a lot of people write their protagonist. Jenny: Yes, I absolutely agree. And there’s such a deep sense of commitment to the characters, so I quite understand what you’re saying. You feel as if you have invested a huge amount of time understanding and getting to know her. Jenny: You’ve also taught courses on pioneer /frontier history I think? You’re not drawn to write historical mysteries? Marilynn: The only time I ever thought about writing an historical mystery was when I was in Cincinnati doing research for my dissertation, and I came up with a couple of detectives called Frank and Manley. That went absolutely nowhere. Historical novels are a real speciality, and much more difficult from my point of view to write then writing in the present day. You just have to have so many things right, because anybody who reads it will know something about the period, and will catch you out every time you are a mistake. Jenny: You’ve mentioned your dissertation a couple of times and I’m curious to know- what was the topic of it? Marilynn: It was money. It was about the bank in Cincinnati that caused the panic of 1819. It was part of a national bank system and it got stuck with loans it couldn’t collect. The Ohio River freeze was early that year, and farmers couldn’t produce enough of their produce. Ohio River freeze, 1918 When the river froze, all that stuff landed in New Orleans at the same time and the market collapsed. Nobody in the Cincinatti area could pay back their money they borrowed form the bank. The bank wound up having to foreclose on a lot of real estate and ended up owning much of southern Ohio and Indiana as well as northern Kentucky. Jenny: So it was sheer misfortune, not fraud of any sort? Marilynn: It wasn’t bad banking, it was sheer misfortune. But it pulled down the economy of the United States. Jenny: That’s fascinating, I didn’t realise that had happened. It sounds like an amazingly interesting topic to look into. Marilynn: It was interesting, and I’ve always been interested in the way money works. That’s how money got into Lee Carruthers’ life. I’m just interested in the way market works, the way money moves, and the way it behaves. It was a minor field in my Ph.D dissertation, money and banking. So I found myself interested when I started dealing with terrorism and terrorism funding, and how it worked. That’s one of the things Lee does. Turning to Marilynn as reader Jenny: The series is called “The Joys of Binge Reading” because I see it as providing inspiration for people who like to read series . . . .So – turning to your taste in fiction who do you “binge read” ? Marilynn: When I was dealing with the Vietnamese War, I did a lot of research into the First World War. I still retain an interest in it, although it’s not my favourite war; I’m not sure I have a favourite war. I have a couple of series that I like to read that connect with the First World War. Charles Todd, – really Caroline and Charles Todd – an American mother and son author team – which I think is an unusual combination – has two series set in the First World War. The first one is Bess Crawford, who was a nurse in the casualty clearing hospital on the front lines in the First World War. Charles Todd A Forgotten Place The second is Inspector Ian Fleming. He has had a nervous breakdown that he has to hide. You just can’t have that sort of thing; it’s morally indefensible. But he’s haunted quite literally by one of his troopers. He and the trooper do the detective work – he works for Scotland Yard, he’s gone back to Scotland Yard after the war hiding his hauntings. Jenny: I haven’t heard of Charles Todd actually. That’s a new one to me. Marilynn: Look him up. I think I like Bess Crawford better, probably because she’s the female protagonist. Also, I have a couple more too. I’d like to recommend Michael Pearce’s Mamur Zapt series which takes place in Egypt before the First World War during the period when England was occupying Egypt. The books are not only intriguing but also Pearce has a way with words – they’re very funny sometimes. And finally amongst all the series I like, Donna Leon whose Commisario Brunetti series takes place in the present time in Venice. The most marvellous recipes for food come out of that book! He’s not your basic hard nosed cop. He’s a very sympathetic, empathetic man. I find him enchanting to spend the with. Donna Leon – About Face Jenny: Yes I’ve read Donna Leon, she is lovely. Circling back to the end Jenny: At this stage in your career, if you were doing it all again, what would you change – if anything? Marilynn: I’d start much earlier, instead of spending much of the time teaching. I would start learning how to write a novel much earlier. I have colleagues who have fifteen books out. I’ve got 4, and that’s because I didn’t start and stay with it early enough; I wish I had. Jenny: What is next for Marilynn the writer? New projects under development? Marilynn: Well I’m working on a non- fiction project right now. I’m editing the English translation of a Vietnamese book about the Bronze Age, which I’m finding very fascinating. When I studied the Vietnamese War, I studied Vietnamese history as well, and I find that the Bronze Age is particularly interesting. As a matter of fact, my favourite non- fiction publication is an article about the Vietnamese military history in 300 BC. So that I have to work on while my next project is ticking over in my head – that’s Book Four. Jenny: So the Bronze Age – that’s 300 BC in Vietnam, is that the date? Marilynn: Yes. That’s my favourite non- fiction article, 300 BC in Vietnam. Jenny: That’s an extreme contrast to doing Lee Carruthers isn’t it? I can understand it would be great to have two contrasting things like that to work on. Marilynn: Well it is an extreme contrast, because most of the work I could do in 300 BC is archaeological- that sort of early documentary/ text study. And of course I wrote while I was teaching the Vietnamese War, so it’s sort of backed up the Vietnamese military history in 300 BC. It sort of backed up what the Vietnamese were doing during our war. Vietnamese Bronze Age incense burner with dragon handle Jenny: Where can readers find you on line? Marilynn: I am active on social media, and I also have a website I’d like people to contact me through if they’d like. First of all, you have to understand the weird spelling of my name- “Marilynn Larew”. Jenny: Yes, how did you get the two ‘n’s’? Marilynn: Well my mother was planning to call me Jacqueline, and one of her friends named their baby Jacqueline first. So she named me Marilynn, but she made it particularly unusual by putting a second ‘n’ on it. And with the Larew – my husband’s people were French and they refugeed to Holland. Anyway, my website is http://marilynnlarew.com/, where readers will find excerpts from all of my novels as well as a page where they can get a free short story “Weapon of Mass Destruction”. You can also sign up for my very occasional newsletter there. I’m also active on Facebook more than any other social media. My Facebook is www.facebook.com/marilynn.larew. I’d be pleased if people would come and find me there. I’m less active on Twitter, but my Twitter page is https://twitter.com/marilynn_larew Jenny: Thanks so much for being with us today, it’s been lovely to be able to talk. Marilynn: Thank you Jenny, I’m very pleased to be here with you. Jenny: I’ll look forward to reading about Isis and drones in Book Four! When are you hoping to have that one finished? Marilynn: I haven’t had that one started, except for that scene with Sydney telling him why she is not in Boston. Jenny: So does it take you about a year to write a book of the Lee Carruthers’ sort? Marilynn: I think it will, yes. Jenny: Well all the very best with it, and with the historical non- fiction that you’re doing right now. Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]

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