Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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A friend smirks at you and says, nice haircut. Did you lose a bet? Everyone laughs, but later at night you're staring at yourself in the mirror. Is teasing a form of love amongst friends or can it be harmful? Well, this topic hits home for me and we are going to discuss it with someone who has done research in this area. She's a child and youth studies professor at Brock University.
Her name is Naomi Andrews. Naomi, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for having me.
I've given this one a lot of thought because my friends and I use kind of mean spirited, but loving jokes as a way to kind of like transact in closeness, affection. I think a lot of adults do this, don't they?
Absolutely. Yeah. Teasing is a part of all of our lives for sure.
But of course, there's the line and the gray area. And that's what I want to discuss tonight. Let's start at the very young age when kids do it with each other. Like, can you paint me a picture where it could be perceived as kids just being kids or something that's actually pretty hurtful?
Yeah, with kids it's difficult because what we find is that for very young kids, they don't understand that teasing can be fun. When you talk to younger kids and you ask them about teasing, they think teasing is mean. They say, you know, you wouldn't tease your friend because they're your friend.
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Chapter 2: Is teasing a form of love or can it be harmful?
That would be mean. And it's not until early adolescence and into adolescence that... You kind of understand there's some nuance there. Right. And you can say something that, you know, has that bite to it, has some of that meanness in it, but can still be fun and friendly.
Teasing is interesting because it lives somewhere between joking and bullying. And I think that subtlety kids don't really always get that, do they?
Yeah. And I think even as adults, we don't always get that. I think, you know, teasing doesn't have a super clear definition, right? We know there's something to do with humor. There's, you know, there's some joking aspect to it, but then there's something to do with aggression. There's that kind of, you know, mean-ish nature.
But I think we kind of throw around the word teasing a lot and we may not actually understand what it is all the time. Yeah. But we know it when it happens. Right. And we know that sometimes it can it can be fun and it can be super, super friendly. And we just are having a laugh with our friends. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes it can really be hurtful.
Sounds to me like the conclusion in the research in terms of teasing, whether it's good or bad. The answer is it depends, which is kind of like unsatisfying, but it's an honest answer. What are some of the ingredients that make it friendly, maybe even affectionate versus kind of harmful?
Yeah. So we've tried to map, you know, a picture of this kind of what is a harmful tease and what is a playful tease, because there's a lot that that goes into it. Right. Some of the key things we see is what is your relationship to the person? So in general, playful teasing happens between friends.
And what some of our participants talk about is, you know, you need to know the person to know what type of teasing is OK and what type of teasing is not OK. And so typically, if it's your friend and you're trying to be fun and have a good time, you know what's OK to tease them about, right?
Maybe you know that you can tease them that they're bad at basketball because they don't really care about basketball. But, you know, you can't tease them about their grades at school because that's something they're really sensitive about. So that's definitely a big one is what is your relationship with that person? Another thing we see as being important is who else is around, right?
So are you teasing someone in front of an audience? If it's a tease that's kind of maybe on the line or might be harmful, the audience can make it feel particularly harmful. Having other people kind of witness something that might be potentially embarrassing, having other people around can really increase that sense of embarrassment.
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Chapter 3: How do young children perceive teasing?
So that's kind of a factor, right? What is the context that can play a role? And then I guess another thing we see as being important is the power balance between the people involved, right? If someone is teasing you, do you feel comfortable that you can tease them back, right? Is that this kind of back and forth reciprocal thing where you're teasing me, I'm teasing you?
Or is it this really one-sided, I'm getting teased and no one's sticking up for me and I'm really feeling harmed by it?
I want to talk more about this power imbalance thing because I feel like that's the thorniest one. Like, for example, a teacher teasing a student or maybe some friends are out and one friend is wealthier than another and that friend starts teasing the one less wealthy about money. Like, is this where things really start to get dangerous when there's a deep power imbalance there?
It is, yeah. And, you know, we think about teasing sometimes in comparison to bullying, and partially because people confuse it. Sometimes when people talk about bullying, they use the word teasing. And they are different, except that that power imbalance is really what typifies bullying, right? Bullying involves having that power imbalance between the perpetrator and the victim of bullying.
And that is what we see in teasing that feels really harmful is that it's much closer to bullying. Right. Because of that power imbalance, because the person who's being targeted doesn't feel like they have agency or capacity to ask for it to stop or to say something back. Right.
If they feel powerless in the situation because of whatever whatever that power difference is, that can be where it feels really hurtful.
Now, knowing where that line is, I've thought a lot about this one because how do you know where a line is if you don't experiment with crossing it is one thing. I've fallen victim to that. Like, for example, my friends and I spew vitriol at each other and it's so loving and we laugh. But then if I try that with my girlfriend's friends, they end up getting very upset.
The line's very different for different people. But how are we supposed to know where the line is? I think everyone expects us to. But how do we know?
Yeah, it's really difficult, right? It's a fine line. And, you know, what some of our participants talk about is that it really takes a high level of social skills to figure it out, right? So when we're teasing, we can be aware of that, right? If the goal is to not cross the line, right? If this is fun, we're with our friends, we don't want to make them feel bad.
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Chapter 4: What factors determine if teasing is playful or hurtful?
That you've noted this has crossed the line and it still goes on. That kind of feels extra bad.
I really hope my older brother's listening to this. I want to latch on to what you said about having a high degree of social skills to know where the line is. Maybe that's the crux of why teasing is not the best idea for young kids. They haven't learned social skills yet. They're just learning them. They're kids after all.
Yeah, absolutely, right? Teasing is nuanced and it's complex. And like you said, you know, and that's why we hear from children, they don't have that level of nuance, right? They just say, you know, teasing's mean, right? That's being mean. And it does require... a particular set of skills, a particular set of social skills to be able to kind of do it successfully.
So I think it is something that, you know, it can be fun, right? You can, we bond with our friends or with our family members through teasing. You know, some people use teasing as flirting, right? For potential romantic relationships. Like it's common and it can be really fun and positive for a relationship. But I think we do need to be careful about those nuanced situations, right?
The audience piece kind of fascinates me, too. I used to do stand up comedy and one of my favorite gigs were the roasts when people would make fun of me and say mean stuff in front of audiences. And it really heightened it. Of course, it was done lovingly, whatever. But like, yeah, I think that's another thing to be mindful. Would you say a mean joke in front of 100 friends versus just privately?
Yeah. And the other thing that we hear is, you know, part of the issue with an audience is if somebody is going to stand up for you or not. Right. So if there is some teasing going on where maybe it's crossing the line, you're not feeling good about it. If someone is there to stand, you know, even that one person to stand up for you and say like, you know, hey, enough, like, let's back off.
that can feel really positive. But particularly if there's a lot of people around and no one's doing anything about it, you feel really targeted. You feel really singled out and that could feel worse, right? Whereas if it's everyone's in on the joke together, then that can feel a little better.
Well, Naomi Andrews is a child and youth studies professor at Brock University. Naomi, thank you for this chat. It's been informative. I appreciate you being on the show.
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
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