Conrad Flynn Part 2 | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
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What are the implications of fame and power in modern celebrity culture?
It's better off for everybody if we actually just don't start opening these doors. If there was all this understanding and knowledge, why does it go on and then why does it stop going on? They get into the occult, they do rituals, and it coincides with their success. The public can't help but get into an argument about, is this or is this not true? One of the British members of parliament, that was one of his colleagues, Jeffrey Epstein's essential father-in-law. I have watched where incredibly powerful people seem to be above the law.
I mean, look what happened in the last few years with celebrities. I don't want to bring this up.
We got to go viral here.
Keep going.
Conrad Flynn, welcome back to the TMO Show. You're the first guest I've ever had back.
I'm excited. This is our own double album.
Well, it's Kiss Alive 2. I think that's what we're going with. Anything you want to jump in on before I go down my particular rabbit hole? I mean, we've caught a little fire online. That's interesting. Good business together in wrestling parlance.
Yeah, well, I want to ask you about wrestling at some point. Sure, yeah. um what was actually asked you um friend of mine wanted me to ask uh you once said that in in music and rock history uh the logic of wrestling and marketing is very similar to how pop works in terms of pop stars are marketed or can be marketed in a way that's not unlike wrestling in terms of getting someone over marketing what kind of group are there any acts, including the Smashing Pumpkins, that you have ever analogized to a pop act where you're like, this guy's kind of like, it's like I know Bob Dylan was famously influenced by Gorgeous George. Oh, I see. David Bowie in Glam took itself from this British wrestler in your work with NWA or in wrestling.
Have you ever noticed, like, what did you mean by that? And do you have any analogies to that, to wrestling and pop?
I just think it's the, what I attach to is it's the mechanics of getting people to buy into an avatar.
Right.
And as the audience leans into the avatar, the artist or the person behind the avatar leans into it too. So you create almost like a third person. Right. Hulk Hogan, his real name was Terry Bollea. He wasn't Hulk Hogan. but he became Hulk Hogan. John Wayne wasn't John Wayne, he became John Wayne. Right, right. So I'm sort of fascinated by the mechanism of creating the Avatar and how, whether it's a Bruce Springsteen or a John Wayne or a David Bowie, they figure out that they can sort of work with this third entity that exists between the audience and the person holding the marionette strings.
Well, that's something that Gorgeous George, the wrestler, said to Bob Dylan in Bob Dylan's memoirs. He said that they passed each other, and Gorgeous George said, you're getting people to believe in it. Bob Dylan says, I'm not 100% sure that's what he said, but he's like, that's what I thought he said. That's what's more important, is he said, you're getting people to believe in it.
Yeah. So wrestling is the overt expression of, an acknowledgement that that is what is actually happening. And now that the business has been exposed since Vince McMahon came out and said, -"Okay, it's not real." Circa 1989, now we have a lot of people actually exploring that through wrestling fan sites and on wrestling podcasts. Like, is so-and-so doing a good job of the avatar?
Right.
Music seems to be behind this particular curve culturally. People still want to believe that Lady Gaga is Lady Gaga all the time. Right, right, right. And as someone who came out very early in the process in the 90s and actually started talking about these things and paid the price for it because people wanted me to be a rock star, not somebody explaining what a rock star is. Right. And now, of course, it's all very outward, but I still think it's funny that the public is still enamored with the idea that people are these people 24-7 when it's obviously, it's patently obvious that they're not. Right, right, right. So, I don't know if that answers your question.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What are the implications of fame and power in modern celebrity culture?
0:00–12:11
2
How does the occult symbolism influence pop music?
12:11–21:28
3
What parallels exist between wrestling and the music industry?
21:28–31:49
4
How do artists navigate the pressures of fame and public perception?
31:49–42:21
5
What is the relationship between celebrity culture and politics?
42:21–54:46
6
How do personal experiences shape views on fame and success?
54:46–1:04:41
7
What role does spirituality play in the music industry?
1:04:41–1:17:32
8
How can artists maintain integrity in a rigged system?
1:17:32–1:38:56
Speakers
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