Louise Upston: Social Development Minister on the results of the inquiry into the Tom Phillips case, lack of information sharing
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Why did public agencies fear sharing information in the Tom Phillips case?
So the apology is duly delivered. All nine recommendations accepted. Louise Upston is the minister in charge of this. She's back with us as well. Morning. Good morning, Mike. You're not having a great time a bit between this and MSD, are you?
Well, I think this one was particularly concerning.
What does the Privacy Commissioner say about sharing data when a child is at risk?
Information sharing has come up in the past. And it's frustrating that that continues to be something that gets in the way of protecting children.
Can you explain to me, given how long I've been around doing the same thing over and over and over again, and the same problems keep rearing their head, what is it within departments that has them not sharing information?
Well, I think there's a fear that they will share the wrong information. that they'll get into trouble, that information that they share won't be kept safe. And look, as part of the Dame Karen Patasi work that I'm leading, the Privacy Commissioner came out at the end of last year to reinforce that people can and must share information if a child is at risk. So there's more work to do to make that message very, very clear. Our expectations are
How have Oranga Tamariki and the police responded to the inquiry’s findings?
that people who work in government agencies share information freely when there is a child or children at risk of
harm.
It's clearly
not happened in this instance. No, it has not. The police seem to back themselves to a certain degree. Do OT back themselves to a certain degree or not?
Well, I think they've clearly accepted responsibility that there were things they should have done better. There was information they should have shared and followed up on. And look, what
What steps are being taken to improve inter‑agency information sharing?
What I do want to say is since 2021, Waranga Tamariki have been working to improve their practices. So I don't believe with the report being tabled yesterday, we are starting from a cold start. There's already work underway. As I said, the work programme for the Dame Curran-Pitasi report is is also underway, and we can and must do better. We're simply not good enough.
Is this a resource for OT? Is this a resource or an attitude issue?
What lessons can other government departments learn from this failure?
So I'm talking, say, the wider family warnings. When a wider family goes, this is going to go pear-shaped, is it, I don't have the people to help you, I wish I would, or is it, oh, yeah, I've heard this before, don't worry about it?
Well, I think Oranga Tamariki is the best to answer that, but I would say it's probably a bit of both. And, you know, we do have to change the attitudes. The themes that were identified from the inquiry, you know, do say that there should have been better interagency work and there should have been better information sharing if both police and Oranga Tamariki had shared information more fully. You know, there is a chance that children may not have been taken the second time.
Appreciate it. Louise Upston, Minister for Social Development, Child Poverty Reduction.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
Why did public agencies fear sharing information in the Tom Phillips case?
0:00–0:17
2
What does the Privacy Commissioner say about sharing data when a child is at risk?
0:17–1:12
3
How have Oranga Tamariki and the police responded to the inquiry’s findings?
1:12–1:41
4
What steps are being taken to improve inter‑agency information sharing?
1:41–2:12
5
What lessons can other government departments learn from this failure?
2:12–3:10
Speakers
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