The Resident and the Rogue with Kaid van Kampen
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What is the premise of Katie Van Kampen’s Dungeons & Dragons story and why does it matter for medical trainees?
Hey everyone, before we dive in, I just had to say a couple of words about the live show we just did in Minneapolis. It was truly amazing. The seven storytellers who we selected just knocked it out of the park. And in some ways, I kind of couldn't believe what I was seeing. It felt like I was watching these frontline clinicians transform before my eyes into professional. Performers. They were in their instincts. They knew exactly what they were saying and why they were saying it. They got laughs. It was kind of a transcendent experience. So keep an eye out for those stories. We'll be featuring them on the podcast. And if your story is curious, consider pitching a story idea to us for our next show, which is going to be on Saturday, November 4th in New York City on the
The theme of taking care. You can visit our website and find all the information there. But the deadline for story pitches is May 15th. And we actually have an info session scheduled on May 3rd with Molly and Kristen, our in-house story coaches. So you can come to that and learn a little bit more about how to craft a successful pitch, how our coaching process works, and all that fun stuff. So check that out and hope to see some of you in New York this fall. This season of the Nocturnus is sponsored by the Physicians Foundation. Support for the Nocturnist comes from the California Medical Association.
At the Nocturnist, we are careful to ensure that all stories comply with healthcare privacy laws. Details may have been changed to ensure patient confidentiality. All views expressed are those of the person speaking and not their employer.
You're listening to the Nocturnus, stories from the world of medicine. I'm Emily Silverman. In today's episode, medical student Katie Van Campen brings us into the magical world of Dungeons and Dragons, otherwise known as D D. When Katie's not in the hospital, they're often playing the role of Dungeon Master, guiding their players through different adventures and scenarios and obstacles. And as you'll hear in the story, the deeper they get into the game, the more parallels they find with their work as a physician in training. Katie is a student at McMaster University in Canada, a writer, an avid theatergoer, and will be heading to the University of British Columbia for their residency in orthopedic surgery.
Katie initially told their story on stage at the Women in Medicine Summit in Chicago in September of 2022, but this version was actually recorded in the studio, which makes for an extra intimate and immersive listening experience, which we hope you'll enjoy. After the story, Katie and I chat about the ins and outs of D ⁇ D, how to build one's character as a physician, and the perks of seeing the hospital as a magical land of narrative encounters. But before we get there, here is Katie's story.
You're walking through the forest. It's dark. There's a gentle breeze through your hair. You look around at your friends, your companions, the people you trained with to become a knight. Standing at the center of the box formation you have going on is a princess. Tall. Pretty. The only thing she's said so far is she doubts whether or not you can protect her. And honestly, she has a point. This is your first mission and no one knows what happens when you walk through the woods. You keep going though, putting one foot in front of the other, the leaves crunching against your boot. You just need to make it to the other side and that's it. First mission. Complete.
My name is Katie Van Campen. I'm a third year medical student at McMaster University in Canada.
How does Katie describe the first mission in the forest and what parallels does she draw to a trauma bay?
I'm also a dungeon master for a little tabletop role-playing game known as Dungeons ⁇ Dragons, enjoyed by millions of nerds like myself worldwide. Dungeons ⁇ Dragons is a collaborative story-based game in which I, the Dungeon Master, create a world of adventure for my players to explore. It's collaborative because sometimes I put beasts in front of my players and instead of fighting them, they decide to befriend them. Now, when I'm not spending my time thinking of dragons and castles, I like to spend the rest of my time in the hospital, roleplaying as a doctor.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the premise of Katie Van Kampen’s Dungeons & Dragons story and why does it matter for medical trainees?
0:00–4:20
2
How does Katie describe the first mission in the forest and what parallels does she draw to a trauma bay?
4:20–9:21
3
What are the key differences between a Dungeon Master’s narrative control and a physician’s patient care role?
9:21–14:12
4
How does the conversation explore the “checks” (investigation, perception, charisma) in D&D and in clinical practice?
14:12–20:57
5
Why does Katie choose orthopedic surgery and how does she compare surgical decision‑making to a D&D dice roll?
20:57–27:33
6
What insights does the host draw about mapping the Dungeon Master role onto the surgeon‑patient dynamic?
27:33–33:27
7
How does viewing the hospital as a magical, collaborative story affect empathy and burnout for clinicians?
33:27–40:29
8
What final advice does Katie give listeners about playing Dungeons & Dragons and its relevance to medicine?
40:29–43:58