What We Learned from the COVID-19 Response with Philip Zelikow
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Hey everyone, before we dive into today's episode, I wanted to remind you that we have an open call for story pitches for our upcoming show in New York City on November fourth on the theme of taking care. And that's the show that we're producing in collaboration with the amazing medical literary magazine, Bellevue Literary Review. Anyone who's been involved in the caregiving experience can pitch their story for that show. You don't have to be a doctor or a nurse. You could be a patient or a family caregiver or really anyone. So if you're interested in that opportunity, visit our website and remember that the deadline for pitches is the end of the month. So that's May 31st. And we're really looking forward to hearing some of your stories.
Now on to today's episode. Support for the Nocturnist comes from the California Medical Association.
At the Nocturnist, we are careful to ensure that all stories comply with healthcare privacy laws. Details may have been changed to ensure patient confidentiality. All views expressed are those of the person speaking and not their employer.
You're listening to the Nocturne's Conversations. I'm Emily Silverman. Today's episode features a truly extraordinary thinker, writer, public servant, and patriot. His name is Philip Zilligo, and he is the White Burkett Miller Professor of History at the University of Virginia, an attorney, and a former career diplomat who has served at all levels of American government in administrations from Reagan to Obama. Philip has led three bipartisan national. The Carter Ford Commission on Federal Election Reform, the 9-11 Commission, and the COVID Crisis Group. And it's the COVID Crisis Group that recently published a book called Lessons from the COVID War. Which is what Philip and I are gonna be discussing today on the show.
It's quite different from the other books and articles and papers that have been published about COVID over the last few years. And that's because it's an investigative report. So a little bit of background on the COVID crisis group. The purpose of the group was to lay the groundwork for a national COVID commission. Philip was the leader of this group, and the group included 34 experts across disciplines diverse as medicine, biology, government, economics, and more. I was really fortunate to be invited into this group because of the work that the Nocturnist was doing collecting stories and perspectives of frontline clinicians during the crisis. So as a side note, you should know that I am listed as an author on the report.
Over two years, this nonpartisan group held listening sessions with nearly 300 people related to everything from the origins of the virus to Operation Warp Speed to the Omicron wave and Paxlavid and more. A lot was learned during those listening sessions and with all of that research. And when it started to look like Congress was not going to create a formal commission for COVID, the members of our group felt a duty to share what we had found with the public. And this is the report that the group has produced. I'm still amazed at Phillips' ability to synthesize so many different voices and perspectives in this book, which, despite the complexity of the topic, is actually very plain spoken and easy to read for any ordinary American citizen.
And I was so honored that Philip came onto the podcast today to chat with me about the report's biggest insights and discoveries, as well as some of the solutions that flow from those discoveries, which hopefully will better equip us as a nation to handle the next pandemic when it comes. But before our chat, here is Philip reading a brief excerpt from the report, Lessons from the COVID War.
We talked to a key figure in the crisis. one of those who helped originate the successful Operation Warp Speed that rushed vaccines to Americans, Peter Marks, Marx said it was stunning to him that there was so little understanding of the lessons from this war. Some experiences troubled him, Marx admitted. Sometimes he wished that, like one of those characters in the movie, Men in Black,
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–8:23
2
What is the COVID Crisis Group and how was the report “Lessons from the Covid War” created?
8:23–13:51
3
How did Philip Zelikow’s background shape the investigative approach of the report?
13:51–18:49
4
What were the biggest insights from the report about the U.S. pandemic response?
18:49–26:45
5
Why did testing and transmission guidance fail early in the pandemic?
26:45–36:20
6
How did state and local governments improvise their own pandemic responses?
36:20–47:34
7
What is the myth of the lockdown‑vs‑reopening dichotomy and what actually happened?
47:34–56:10
8
Why was Operation Warp Speed successful for vaccines but not for therapeutics?
56:10–1:08:59