Dru Mack is a professional rock climber who spent his formative years in the Red River Gorge, and is now traveling full time pursuing hard sport climbing. Nat Gustafson sits in on our conversation to talk about hard projecting, tricks for maintaining power and finger strength, an update on “The List”, training recommendations, hype up songs, and Dru’s battle with ‘The Crew’ 5.14c in Rifle. Support on Patreon: patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing Show Notes: http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/dru-mack Nuggets: 4:12 – Send Frosties vs. sad Frosties, DQ Blizzards, and steak dinners 6:01 – One “health day” per week, and crunches for beach abs 7:17 – Battling ‘The Crew’ 9:14 – Project climbing vs. mixing it up, and “every project has a different process” 13:01 – ‘The Flame’, and going on bouldering trips to help his sport climbing 16:10 – Balancing performance climbing with Moonboard sessions, bouldering trips, and hangboarding 18:41 – Dru’s bouldering trip to Estes 19:55 – Bouldering sessions in the gym, and Is, Ys, and Ts 21:35 – Dru’s stretching practice 24:15 – The importance of fun 26:28 – My breathing challenge from Ethan Pringle 30:07 – The theme I’ve noticed in top climbers through the podcast 31:28 – Introducing Nat, the prospect of shoulder surgery, and “decisions are always easier when they’re made for you” 34:14 – Question for Nat: What are some of the cultural differences you noticed (related to climbing) between Spain and the US? What can you attribute to higher climbing standards in Spain? 38:28 – The Spanish warmup 39:37 – Lessons from climbing with the Pou brothers 41:15 – Nat’s progression from 12d/13a to 5.14 in 3.5 years in Spain 42:31 – Nat’s challenges with the language barrier in Spain and feeling emotionally blunted 44:01 – “You don’t get over the fears.” 46:11 – Learning from friends 49:15 – Social media and room for mistakes and growth 57:37 – Lee and mentorship 1:03:30 – ‘Middle Child’ 1:06:57 – Being “Lee” for some other kid someday 1:07:59 – Dru’s biggest weaknesses leaving the Red 1:09:45 – Dru’s first trip to Europe, climbing with J-Star, and doing ‘Fisheye’ 1:11:32 – Getting lowered off the end of his rope, and “always getting better.” 1:13:41 – Plans to move to St. George, and what Dru is focusing on to continue getting better 1:15:36 – Dru’s mantras, little victories, and staying positive 1:18:06 – Update on “The List” (from J-Star), and campusing slabs at the VRG 1:22:18 – Stiff shoes and calf raises for kneebars 1:23:48 – Plans to continue “The List”, and balancing volume climbing with projecting 1:28:07 – 5.15? 1:32:51 – Moving to St. George, community, and balancing connection with solo time 1:39:54 – The book ‘Exhalation’ 1:43:03 – Productivity vs. downtime, phones as a tool, and asking ourselves, “do I have the time to be entertained right now?” 1:46:37 – Shoutout to listeners! Thank you so much for your questions, seriously! 1:46:59 – Patron Question: What should I do to prepare for a trip to the Red? (given two to three months to prepare) 1:51:47 – Breaking down the “2x2” and the “3x3” 1:54:16 – Best angles to train on for the Red 1:55:03 – How to progress your training leading up to a trip to the Red 1:58:05 – Short summary of Red training 1:58:26 – Fingers and core, and Dru’s current approach to finger strength 2:01:18 – R&B and hype up music 2:03:16 – “Enjoy every second of it.” 2:05:44 – Gratitude for friends and supportive community 2:06:51 – “Would I be ok trying this route for a month and not doing it..?”, and last-ditch efforts on ‘The Crew’ 2:09:17 – More gratitude, blue-point-thumb-wrestling, and basketball 2:11:50 – Send Frosty and donuts

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