Chapter 1: What insights do Tommy Bowe and Donncha O'Callaghan share about returning from injury?
Hello and welcome to another Dress Room. Doneca O'Callaghan, it's good to have you, mate. How are you, man?
Yeah, I'm looking forward to this, Tommy. I'm giddy. I haven't chatted to a lot of people today, so I'm looking forward to our chat. Me, on the other hand. You, on the other hand, have been entertaining the nation, driving up and down from Belfast. And you had a little catnap, did you, Tommy? I did. For a little rest.
Very important. I'm a big fan of a catnap. Yeah. Big family cat nap.
Yeah. Do you know what? I'm getting good at it. Do you know on the Friday I do shitty stories of just nonsense. Yeah. Gonna look into napping though for the next few weeks.
As opposed to going looking for the shitty stories.
No, as the shitty stories. The benefit of the nap.
Oh, like you don't need to go look for them too far. I mean, it's well known. A nap is brilliant for people. Like in terms of like resetting the batteries, recharge and even just like, listen, in the world now, it's all go, go, go, go. Like if you can just close the eyes. Close your brain off for 20 minutes, half an hour, 40 minutes.
It's like meditation. Everyone's looking for meditation. Just go to fucking bed. Sorry.
Exactly. Do you go, if you're going for a nap now, you lie up on the sofa?
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Chapter 2: How do naps contribute to an athlete's recovery process?
And even if it's 20, 30 minutes, it's too late, isn't it? You've missed the window, I think, if you go beyond three.
And it's hard. You can't go to bed that night. You can't go to sleep. Like we had my director on the show this morning said to me, she had a nap for six hours.
Six hours. She said, I went home and I had a nap and I was like, oh, well done. How long do you think it was? Six hours. That's not a map. That's a proper, like, did you even get up from that?
That's a proper sleep. Like, there's some young ones on our team, like, that, you know, they might have been, they're up from four or five o'clock in the morning as well. They're going through the notes and they're there, like, kind of putting all the text messages and put it up. They're in the show together pretty much. But they, I talk to them, like, they don't have kids.
They don't have any, you know, they don't really have that much that's too pressing to do. 100%. Yeah, they're home by one o'clock and they're like, yeah, I just, I decided to just stick on cash in the attic and hop into our like Stepford Wives or something, right? And they stick that on.
And then they said, yeah, I woke up at five o'clock and then went downstairs, had something to eat and went back to bed and went back to sleep until the following morning. I'm like, oh, that's like... 14 hours sleep. Yeah, yeah. How did you get away with that? But yeah, good luck to him.
It's just on that. When I started first with kind of professionalism, my brother was a plasterer and one day he got rained off like he was outside and the weather was so bad they rained it off. But we used to train out on what was the CIT then for kind of weights and speed and different things. So I would jump back in between sessions and go home for a little bit.
Go on, Jake. Jason's having some technical difficulties.
Come in here for the chat about napping. Are you just after waking up?
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Chapter 3: What challenges do athletes face when coming back from serious injuries?
And he became pivotal in terms of The injured players became nearly like scouts. They'd go forward two weeks and look at opposition and they became really helpful. And then we start getting this boy in that, you know what I mean? You're not over there. It was like nearly like, oh, they're injured.
I'm off you know what I mean whereas he brought it back that everyone's vital within the squad because you feel so lonely man when you're out don't you it's so lonely you get into such a such a tight bond with the other lads who are out injured at the time yeah
And you always find there's always somebody worse than you. There's always someone who's done an ACL. There's somebody who's really crocked on their crutches. But you build this like a squad like that every morning while everybody else is out training and doing their meetings and going off and going for matches. You're stuck at home.
Like, so the lads are heading off to European Cup match against Toulouse and they're all full of it, all excited. And then like the Friday morning, we're all back in the gym, back doing our rehab, back doing our physio. But you get such a bond. But then, like, I remember doing Nick Williams or Marcel Couttsy at one stage. Like, we were both out with knee injuries for ages.
We were both trained together. But then you see them return to play earlier than you and it breaks your heart. Yeah.
You've got such a bond. And you're like, you know. They're like, bye, Tommy. Yeah. He's like, I'm starting to run today. And you're like, you're not.
you're running oh shit okay and like they go off and you see them come back in absolutely punctured and then for the next couple of weeks they're returned to play returned to play and trying to build themselves back up and you're just back at square one oh man it's heartbreaking but you're right you're right what you're saying though in terms of the loneliness and actually how important it is
and how nice it is almost to kind of, as a coach, to bring you back in and kind of go, listen, will you do the prep work for Leinster this weekend and maybe take a video analysis session with the whole team and kind of point out a few areas of weakness that you can really, that they can attack.
In typical Doug Cole of being really smart, few of the injured players would actually go over likely. I'm not just saying that, but they were like, I remember they'd come back and they'd even, they'd scouted on wasps and they were like, we don't know is this a lino call, but we heard this on a bailout on the side of the pitch during one of the warmups.
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Chapter 4: How does injury impact an athlete's mental health and team dynamics?
I was out for 11 months. 11 months with my PCL one time that I got this real bad bone bruise and I just couldn't get rid of it. Yeah. But I remember the time I did my... Oh, literally, I did my AC, I did, or not my AC, my Achilles, no, fuck's sake, what's my Achilles? Keep going through them, you're like Ruby Walsh here.
Speaking of naps, wake up, no, my, well, my hamstring, sorry, my hamstring came off the bone, my IT band, my LCL, and I think it was maybe my MCL as well, I literally did everything underneath, bar the ACL, it's wild.
Can I ask you, because I won't remember the injuries, but kick us through the game. When did that one happen?
So we were playing European Cup against Northampton and we'd beaten Northampton. Oh, geez. So this was, this is kind of a big period. This was the year of the Lions in Australia. So that season, when was that? 2013. Yeah. So we'd just beaten Northampton away from home in Franklin's Gardens. Big win for us. We got a bonus point win over there. Then, of course, they came back
to Ravenhill it was huge great atmosphere back the place was booming back then anyway Northampton put it right back up to us but we were in the closing minutes of the game I think we were one or two points behind and Paul Marshall made a break down the blind side and I was with him And he was going to chip it. And then he decided then to just pass it, pass over to me.
And the scrum half was tracking back with me and just did this last minute tap tackle, but caught me perfect. Right. So caught me with the tap tackle. My leg hit the other one. I went up into the air and like I'm at full speed at this stage. So up, up into the air and then just landed, jammed my knee onto the ground. And you literally can see a picture of my knee bend in the wrong direction.
Oh, wow.
Oh, man. Nearly hyperextending.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Gives me the heebie-jeebies. So up into the air, knee landed, boom, hyperextended it and just felt pop, pop, pop, like the whole thing just go... Go through again there where what went.
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Chapter 5: What role does discipline play in an athlete's recovery journey?
I love that now, an untidy winger.
Well, listen, that was where I made my bread and butter, man. That's where I made my name. So sometimes I'd sweep the opposite direction just to see if there's space. And if there was space, I'd obviously be calling it. But it's kind of a last minute thing. So I came back around the corner and I kind of spotted that there was no space. So I slowed down.
But I think it was Murr, whoever it was, pass it to me. And I was like, oh, fuck. It's not worse than getting it on your heels. And you're slow. You know, I wasn't fast. But what do you call that Argentinian second row, the filthy bastard? No, I don't know if it's me. Anyway, listen, whoever he was.
They're all fucking nuts.
He fucking dove into my knee. Literally dove straight into it. I remember it. elbow right into my knee and then that was another one over the top of it. Same knee.
So, sorry, a foot stays in the ground, you go forward, knee goes back.
Yes, his knee is literally, my foot is, my foot is in front of his shoulder, his shoulder's in my knee and then the rest of my body goes over the top of it.
What?
So, anyway, that was, yeah, so that was curtains on that one. We were obviously losing the quarterfinal at that stage and then we were really fucked.
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Chapter 6: How do injured players contribute to team strategy and preparation?
Where are you going to create? So Ireland at that stage when we were at our best made less mistakes than the opposition, gave away way fewer penalties and eventually almost kind of like
bored a team into submission you know like the box kicks were perfect on the money we knew exactly I was going up for it you had two players either side it wasn't just one person tracking in behind it was two people either side so that they were there and one would go in front so that if the ball went that way one would jump in to the side this way so I would know where I'm trying to rebound the ball back to like the detail was phenomenal but at the same time
I hated it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you knew what it was the right thing to do to get in the game. But it's a funny thing because right now I feel that we are terribly indisciplined. It's one of the biggest Irish problems coming into it. But I go back to Jim Williams with me. You know what I mean? He was there like, you can't be good because so many parts of your week are so weak. You know what I mean?
So how do you expect to get up there when Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday are like that? You know what I mean? He was kind of pushing me that you need to be, you need a more disciplined, diligent lifestyle. And I think that's what Joe had. And a byproduct of it was fucking incredible discipline on the pitch because you were disciplined in everything you did throughout the week. You just learned that.
It's one of my greatest worries for us coming into the Six Nations that we I think it's something we need. I'm not saying about that attention to detail, but just more disciplined structure is badly needed around those lads because we're racking up penalties.
We're giving away so many penalties. Yeah. All the provinces were.
Yeah.
It is a huge problem. Even through the autumn internationals, our penalty count is high. Yeah.
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Chapter 7: What are the emotional aspects of returning to play after an injury?
You would never play for Ireland again. And I thought, like, there you have it.
That's mad that you know it in that moment, isn't it? Because you knew the work that went in. And to be fair, Tommy, you didn't pick up small injuries, man. Every one of them is career ending in itself. The fact that you were actually even able to play after any of them is quite remarkable.
But they're nasty, like coming back from an injury like that's so hard. Mentally, mentally.
I remember one time right on a guy, we used to go to these, I used to listen to, because there'd be days I'd be just down in the dumps, like, am I ever, and the coaches are kind of, particularly that time I was out for 11 months, because there were times there where it just didn't seem like it was ever getting better. It was two steps forward, three steps back at stages.
And I used to listen to these motivational podcasts or motivational like YouTube videos.
It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger and all these people like kind of giving me the rock. Do not give up. Yeah, exactly.
show them who you are it's like it's the Mulligan bros or whatever else have these and I'd be listening and I'd be there fucking come on I'm gonna do it and I remember like I was really down the dumps and I was like this am I ever gonna get back Glenn and I remember listening to this
YouTube video and it was like about resolve and perseverance and don't giving up so I was like right okay and I was going off to go get myself a coffee just to try and get away from the train venue for a bit so I listened to it I was pumped I got out of the car I went over and I just went to this coffee shop and I stood there in the queue and then this fella goes
Tommy Moe, have you retired then? Have you? And I was like, ah, for fuck's sake.
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Chapter 8: What lessons can be learned from personal injury experiences in sports?
I remember sitting beside him on the bike one day, just one morning, and he was on the bike just kind of spinning out his ankle. And I just jumped on it beside him. And again, a bit like you said, you're just trying to be sound and just kind of ask, you know, how are you getting on? I mean, he just pretty much broke down. He just like, just, it's not getting better. It would take a lot.
Wouldn't it? When you know the type of man he is too. We need to address him on Fez one time. Stephen Ferris. What a remarkable character. Just the, whatever about the wrecking ball on the pitch. Just. Like, the only athlete I've seen like it is the kind of David Wallace, isn't it? But at least Wally knew what 70% was in training, whereas Fez had fucking no regard. He was always on, man.
He was dangerous. He was like, please be in the team because if I'm going against him, I'm dead.
One time we were training with Ulster and he was only like a young fella coming through and it was unopposed. It was 15 v 15, no tackles, just like hands on type thing. And a ball came down off the line out to the out half and the out half kind of gave it back inside to me into that gap. Right. But Stevie'd obviously missed the jumps, was trying to catch up. He fucking cleaned me out of it.
in a walkthrough like in a walkthrough and Mark McCall who was coach at the time obviously at Saracens now he just goes get the fuck off like just the horse the horse yeah so Stevie literally had to leave and walk off the pitch and go into the dressing room
I love a young fella.
Let's save Fez because there's brilliant stories about him. What a man. What a brilliant guy. Good stuff.
But he'd be a great man to tell us the stories about injuries and everything else. But yeah, no, it's a tough time. But it is fascinating. You're a lucky man that you didn't have to deal with too many injuries.
But I do think that is the difference in it. Like second row is more kind of slow twitch. Like you were fast car stuff. I was bangs, bump and knock and all things. The reason I say, and we'll wrap it here, just DuPont at the weekend, sorry, playing against Saracens. Saracens. Yeah.
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