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Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I am your host, Jade Warshaw. I am joined by fellow co-host, author, host of The Rachel Cruze Show, my host, or co-host today, Rachel Cruze. Rachel, it's been a little minute since we've been on here together. I know.
Since before, 2023. That's right. It was last year. That's crazy. Last year. But give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We'd be honored to take your call in this new year. So let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Donovan in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on, Donovan?
Hey, so I have probably $50,000 in student debt. and another six or seven in consumer debt split between a credit card and like a small car payment that we needed. And I'm looking to go to grad school for clinical mental health counseling. Okay. But obviously I don't want to go further into student debt to do that. Right.
So how would you recommend I do that while also doing the baby steps and trying to get out of debt?
Well, I do think that the first step thought here is, is going to grad school going to have the return on investment that you're looking for? Because it doesn't always. So that'd be the first thing that I'm thinking about. And then two, yeah, you don't want to continue to go into debt. You already have $50,000 in student loan debt.
So if you decide that it does return on investment, what would it look like for you to pay your way and what does it actually cost?
Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.
Donovan, how old are you?
I'm 24, and I have a child and a wife.
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Chapter 2: How can I manage my student debt while considering grad school?
You owe someone something. If something were to happen, you have to pay this debt back. But when you don't owe anyone anything, there is a level of freedom there. There's a less stress. There's options. You don't feel this urgency that, oh my gosh, I have to do this, this, and this. And that starts to limit your options just mentally. Yeah. So if I were you, I would work really hard.
I would be working nights. I would work some weekends. I'd have your wife pick up an extra. I mean, I would do whatever you could to get rid of this $56,000, which is going to take a lot. But you don't have rent. There's some expenses you don't have. But it may take a year or two to do that. And then I would save up some money on the side to be saving for to be able to cash flow grad school.
Because what's going to happen, Donovan, I'm telling you. You're just 26, okay? Or 24. And I know it feels like I know what I want to do. I need to keep pressing forward in this. But when you just have some patience and you wait, even if it's three years, okay? And I know that is not fun. But you get to be 27-year-old Donovan. And you're either saying, get me this degree.
I know this is exactly what I want to do. I have the money for it. I'm not putting myself in a bad place financially to do it. We're doing it wise, in a wise way. And I start this path and I make 30 grand more. The raise, it all happens.
Chapter 3: What should I consider before taking on more student debt?
And it's great. Or 27-year-old Donovan wakes up and he's like, golly, things are shifting. We have another baby on the way. We actually want to move back home. You know what I mean? Things start happening in life that may cause you to make different decisions.
And so if I were you, I think the safest, wisest route is to slow down, get this debt paid off, and then save up and go through grad school.
Listen. I'm right there with you. I don't think that you're going to effectively, because he said he was trying to do the baby steps. And I don't think you can effectively do both because we're talking about a lot of money, $30,000, $15,000 a year. That's what you would have been putting towards the baby steps. And do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And something tells me, you know, you say, hey, I have the ability to double my income. It's thirty thousand dollars. You and your wife together can make fifty. That's a thousand extra dollars a month between the two of you. If you make an extra thousand and she makes an extra thousand, that's twelve thousand a month between the two of you. Put that. I mean, you're almost there.
Does that make sense? Like you can literally do that. with any of these side hustles.
Which is not going to be forever, Donovan. And again, and that advice would be if somebody called and they wanted to go and be a photographer full-time and travel the world, I would say, I would clean this up first, get some money to be able to cash flow that dream. Like, it's one of those things that just has to be in the right order.
And what happens, Donovan, when it's not in the right order, we get the call...
At 27 year old Donovan And there's a You know Something happens And your wife has to stay home You don't have the money You're in the middle of grad school You want to be able to finish But you can't You have all this other consumer debt Like it starts to just Really really intensify And if you can just slow down And have some options I just think that That's the wisest way
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Chapter 4: How do I balance paying off debt and pursuing further education?
you being very forthcoming with what you've done and i did this and here's what my plan is going forward and i'd probably start asking questions around um his philosophy with money and with debt and you can kind of open that with like listen you i don't have to tell you you know i have this debt and i've just kind of i think i'm done with debt like i don't think i'm gonna borrow money anymore i've started listening to i don't you know i don't know how much you guys share as far as um what you're into and podcasts and things like that but
I think it'd be hard to be dating someone that you've been with for three years and they don't kind of have a bead on what your interests are, whether it be hobbies or finance or whatever.
So it seems like it could be pretty organic to bring up the conversation of, hey, you know, that podcast I've been listening to, I'm really like starting to get into it and maybe asking him more generalized money philosophy questions first, as opposed to what do you plan on doing with this 401k loan kind of thing? Does that make sense?
Right. Yeah. And Caitlin, I would always and I always want to know someone's motivation behind why they did what they did, because for some people and we find this all the time doing what we do, you know, there's just there is a lot of just ignorance. People don't know. And so it's like, oh, this is an option to take out a loan.
I mean, I guess like they've never even heard of another way how to live. And so there is something to be said about once they have some information, kind of what Jade's saying. Then be able to say, OK, so what does this look like now? Because the truth is, I'm like, I mean, Caitlin, I would still be in a relationship with somebody if they had student loan debt.
But the key is that they want out and they don't want debt to be part of their life. It's a value system. Do you know what I'm saying? So like to me, it's.
you know winston like when we when we were dating he like had a credit card and his philosophy was like oh i'm gonna use all the rents and all the utilities on the credit card and then and i'm like well i i can't like i literally can't i can't it's not allowed and to him he was like okay so my neck my philosophy shifts to we just pay cash and we don't have a credit score we don't need a credit score and okay like it like it all just kind of made sense does that make sense and i know we were young and you're probably way more set in your ways caitlin and so is your your boyfriend but
The point is, it is a value system conversation at that point. What do we value? And out of your value system is where money becomes a tool. Because money is just a tool. It's just a tool to live your life. And you want to be able to live your life in a pretty similar way, or you're going to continue to, or you will butt heads if you guys continue a relationship and open up the store.
So for me, that would be my number one. And I think the empathy route, like what Jade is saying, is so true. Because you're not perfect, Caitlin. I'm not perfect. Jade's not perfect. None of us are. But I think the key is like, hey, you know, and maybe he is probably feeling a lot of guilt and shame. And the truth is, Caitlin, he's probably not happy with where he is financially. Right.
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Chapter 5: What challenges do couples face when managing finances together?
you know my husband would be like why would you ever like do you know what i'm saying like i remember being on here with dave and we were talking about wine or something and he was like a 300 bottle of wine i'm like i would never like i spend i spend 9.99 on wine dave like i i could he was like oh go get yourself a bottle well i was like i can't i like i physically can't do it like there's certain stuff that i just yes i can't i can't do it captain like i can't do it
Don't make me. Please don't make me. Oh, gosh. I got to go to the phone lines. This is Kennedy in Pittsburgh, PA. What's going on, Kennedy?
Hi, ladies. Thanks so much for taking my call. I have a couple of things. My husband and I have been married almost 34 years. And, you know, we've worked hard our entire lives to build what we have built. And we're kind of at a crossroads on a, on a few things. And, um, we have 17 rental properties that we have acquired. Um, they're all paid for.
Chapter 6: How can one balance investing and paying off a mortgage?
Wow. This is, this is the question I have, you know, you would think, cause you know, we want to retire eventually. We've never taken vacations. We've never been extravagant with things. Um, we have no debt whatsoever. Um,
This is what we're at a crossroads because we were envisioning us when we retire, you know, all of our rental income, which is over $200,000 a year, would just keep us afloat and not have to dip into what we've built over the years. Now I'm noticing that the rental income is just not growing like it should.
And so we're trying to decide if we should sell the property, which are probably worth around $3.2 to $3.5 million in total, and just put the money, you know, away and earn the interest off of it because, you know, just in property taxes alone, like I just wrote a check for almost $50,000 just recently for property taxes on some of the properties.
And so I'm just trying to make, you know, and if one, if an air condition goes out or, you know, I mean, things just add up and it's like that account doesn't build like I think it should build.
Why haven't the rental, why haven't, why hasn't the rent gone up?
Well, I do go up on the ramps. Now, I will say I am terrible because I manage them all. And I am a very sweet landlord. I don't go up like I should, especially if there's a lot of longevity with my tenants. So I know there's room for growth on that. But I just feel like the expenses, if we just were drawing interest, we could probably draw the same amount in interest.
every year than what we would be actually bringing in.
I don't think you should feel guilty about, you know, you're in a real estate business essentially. And I don't think you should feel guilty about passing along the cost of business to the customer. And for you as a landlord, there are prices that increase and some of that you do pass along. And I don't think you should feel guilt in that. Now, if you're still interested in,
In selling, I have my thoughts on this.
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Chapter 7: What should I consider when deciding whether to sell rental properties?
Rachel, you know far more about real estate than I do, so you take the reins.
Not really. Yeah, that's where, and I don't want to sound cold-hearted, but where you've chosen to put your money and your investments is...
is in real estate and real estate involves people so when you have a big heart like you kennedy and you see it like that you're not going to get the same return financially when you don't raise rents right i mean that that's just the that's the mathematical fact so my question to you would be if it's less hassle less work and you're going to get a bigger return somewhere else then yeah i would probably highly consider that
Or if you say, no, real estate is my end game. It is my business in a sense. It's my investment because I want a percentage of what I've bought this. This is the rental. I mean, the rent basically is your income. It's what you're making. and your income has to stay at market value, and if that's how you run it, then I think we're having a different conversation.
But it doesn't sound like you necessarily want to run it like that.
Well, you know, the rental properties are just a side. You know, I have my own business, and my husband's also an executive for a company. So we both still work.
How much do y'all make a year off those, off that?
Okay, we're at $800 a year without the rental income. And so rental income was just.
OK, is it a hassle for you, Kennedy? Like, are you to the point in life where you're like, I don't want to deal with 18 tenants and I would rather.
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Chapter 8: How can I effectively manage my finances as a college student?
It is a hassle. OK, so that's it. I think real estate has to be a passion. And for some people, they love the diversity. They love getting a property, getting a good price at the at the front end. And they're doing that. I mean, it is part in their blood. That would be Dave. If he was sitting here, he he loves it.
But if it's a hassle for you, and you don't love it, you don't need to be in it, in my opinion. There may be a level, though, Kennedy, that you keep maybe five of these or something just for the diversification aspect. So I think having real estate as part of your overall, especially where you guys are financially, would be smart.
So maybe you sell half of them, cut the expenses in half, pick your half that you love, keep those for a few more years. And then if you look up, Kennedy, and you're still miserable managing these, Sell them. Yeah. I mean, like this is this is the joy of your life. You want joy in your life. And if it's sucking the joy out of your life, don't do it.
The great thing is they've got choices. Yes. Yes. That's what I love in conversations like this is she has choices. She's not like chained to one option.
But when you are paying, look at the taxes like you need to look at the entire picture, too. If you decide to sell these.
That's a very, very good point. This is The Ramsey Show. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw, joined by Rachel Cruz. Hey, if you like this show, consider liking and subscribing wherever it is that you listen, whether it's on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. When you like and subscribe and share, It helps in so many ways.
Number one, it helps other people find this and use this message and find these resources and hopefully change their life. And obviously it helps us on our end because it helps us in the algorithms. There a couple of weeks ago, Rachel, we were number one in podcasting on Spotify, which that list is always changing. And in my heart, we're still number one. And at Apple.
I looked it up on this podcast.
Yes, I love it. And that's really all because of you guys. So keep liking, Keep subscribing and keep sharing in the new year. We're so, so grateful. All right. Let's take it to the phone lines. We got Victoria in Austin, Texas. What's going on, Victoria?
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