Have you ever felt like you're constantly putting out fires at work instead of making progress? Kevin welcomes Don Kieffer and Nelson Repenning to discuss why so many workplace processes feel frustrating and ineffective, and what leaders can do about it. Drawing on decades of experience in operations and organizational design, Don and Nelson reveal why quick-fix workarounds backfire, how firefighting becomes the default mode of operation, and the hidden costs of constantly reacting instead of leading. They introduce the concept of dynamic work design and explain why breaking down silos isn't just nice to have, it's essential. Along the way, they share practical tools leaders can use to move from chaos to sustainable success. Listen For 00:00 Introduction and the problem with roadblocks at work 03:33 How they met and started collaborating 06:07 The Harley-Davidson connection 08:32 The big idea behind the book 09:41 Why organizations assume the world is predictable 11:03 What dynamic work design means 12:21 The hidden cost of firefighting and workarounds 13:01 The firefighting trap explained 15:33 How firefighting becomes self-reinforcing 17:36 Why the dynamic appears in every organization 19:12 Leadership behaviors that unintentionally worsen it 21:12 Moving beyond blame to system thinking 21:56 The problem with silos in organizations 23:43 How work actually flows across silos 25:12 Visualizing knowledge work to expose inefficiency 26:04 Silos and identity in organizations 27:22 Why we must focus on system productivity 28:36 The matrix problem in modern organizations 29:12 Five elements of dynamic work design 29:48 Problem formation as an underrated leadership skill 30:24 Why framing the problem matters 31:23 Using conscious thinking to solve the right problems 32:36 Asking "what problem are we trying to solve" 33:20 What leaders can learn from this habit 33:48 Don and Nelson's hobbies outside of work 34:38 What they are reading now 35:35 Where to find their book and connect 37:19 Wrap up and invitation to subscribe Their Story: Nelson P. Repenning and Donald C. Kieffer are the authors of There's Got to Be a Better Way: How to Deliver Results and Get Rid of the Stuff That Gets in the Way of Real Work. Nelson is the School of Management Distinguished Professor at the MIT Sloan School of Management. He is currently the director of MIT's Leadership Center and was recently recognized by Poets & Quants as one of the world's top executive MBA instructors. His scholarly work has appeared in Management Science, Organization Science, Administrative Science Quarterly, the Academy of Management Review, Strategic Management Journal, and Research in Organizational Behavior. Donald C. Kieffer is a Senior Lecturer in Operations Management at MIT Sloan. He is a career operations executive and co-creator of Dynamic Work Design. Kieffer started running equipment in factories at age 17. He was VP of operational excellence at Harley-Davidson, where he worked for 15 years. Since 2007, he has been advising leaders in a variety of industries around the globe. His guidance was instrumental in transforming both the production and technical development areas of the Broad Institute, a Cambridge-based genomic sequencing organization, now an industry leader. He is the founder of ShiftGear Work Design, LLC, and teaches Operations Management at AVT in Copenhagen. This Episode is brought to you by... Flexible Leadership is every leader's guide to greater success in a world of increasing complexity and chaos. Book Recommendations There's Got to Be a Better Way: How to Deliver Results and Get Rid of the Stuff That Gets in the Way of Real Work by Nelson P. Repenning and Donald C. Kieffer The Mindful Body: Thinking Our Way to Chronic Health by Ellen J. Langer Murder Mysteries by Lousie Penny Like this? Competing in the New World of Work with Keith Ferrazzi How to Achieve Breakthrough Execution and Accelerate Growth with Patrick Thean Leave a Review If you liked this conversation, we'd be thrilled if you'd let others know by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Here's a quick guide for posting a review. Review on Apple: https://remarkablepodcast.com/itunes Join Our Community If you want to view our live podcast episodes, hear about new releases, or chat with others who enjoy this podcast join one of our communities below. Join the Facebook Group Join the LinkedIn Group Podcast Better! Sign up with Libsyn and get up to 2 months free! Use promo code: RLP

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