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The Rest Is Classified

121. Kim Philby: Stalin’s Mole Inside MI6 (Ep 1)

26 Jan 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: Who was Kim Philby and why is he significant in espionage history?

3.777 - 17.294 David McCloskey

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17.514 - 39.504 Gordon Carrera

It's a story about spying, yes, but also a war and betrayal. Really remarkable figure in Ash the Biennale's history. I think he's got a good claim to be the greatest traitor of the 20th century. This is a person who spends years in British intelligence, in MI6, heading towards the top while all the time working for Moscow. And that trip leaves a deep impression.

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39.524 - 46.253 Gordon Carrera

He's in Munich on the eve of an election and he actually attends a massive Nazi rally at which Hitler speaks.

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46.594 - 53.524 David McCloskey

In January, Hitler becomes Chancellor of Germany, horrified by Hitler and The rise of the Nazis.

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53.744 - 55.527 Gordon Carrera

Then the most dramatic thing happens.

Chapter 2: What was Kim Philby's early life and family background?

56.85 - 68.31 Gordon Carrera

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68.751 - 84.475 David McCloskey

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84.775 - 102.017 Gordon Carrera

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102.278 - 112.49 David McCloskey

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Chapter 3: How did Philby's experiences in Europe shape his political views?

112.69 - 130.731 Gordon Carrera

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138.541 - 151.62 David McCloskey

He never seemed to identify himself with his country, even over sport. Although Kim was a very English person, and much more at home in congenial English company than any other, he showed little affection for England or its countryside, cities, institutions, and traditions.

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151.9 - 167.101 David McCloskey

He had some regard for the qualities of English people as a whole, but much contempt for middle-class virtues and middle-class likes and dislikes. Though he never lacked physical or moral courage, one could not imagine him making patriotic gestures. Perhaps there should have been a clue in all this to his real feelings.

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167.361 - 175.031 David McCloskey

But England is full of people who appear to have little patriotism, yet would not dream of spying against their country. Well, welcome to The Rest is Classified.

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Chapter 4: What role did Kim Philby's father play in his upbringing?

175.292 - 201.324 David McCloskey

I'm David McCloskey. And I'm Gordon Carrera. And those are my candid thoughts on England and its people. This will be the only time in this four-part series in which I evince any sympathy whatsoever for Kim Philby. But no, that was Tim Milne. who is Kim Philby's oldest friend, I believe the nephew, Gordon, of A.A. Milne, the creator of Winnie the Pooh, if I'm not mistaken.

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201.344 - 211.936 David McCloskey

Yeah, bizarre reference, yeah. That's right. But Tim Milne was Kim Philby's oldest friend from school, later a colleague in the British Secret Intelligence Service.

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Chapter 5: How did Philby become involved with communist ideology?

212.616 - 225.673 David McCloskey

And today we are starting a four-part series, really, I guess, looking at young Philby, Gordon, the first part of the life of this... really remarkable figure in Ash's history.

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225.973 - 248.851 Gordon Carrera

Yeah, I think he's got a good claim to be the greatest traitor of the 20th century, one of the most consequential spies of all time. This is a person who spends years in British intelligence, in MI6, heading towards the top while all the time, every moment, all through those years working for Moscow.

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248.891 - 265.395 Gordon Carrera

And he does untold damage to intelligence operations of not just the UK, but also the United States. And I think he inflicts kind of real deep trauma on both MI6 and CIA that actually shapes both agencies for the entire Cold War.

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265.615 - 290.453 David McCloskey

Well, selfishly, I guess I should also mention, I think he has... shaped spy fiction as well. I mean, you have this, I think, real trope in the genre of mole hunts, and you see this in all manner of spy thrillers, I think most notably in Jean Le Carre's wonderful novel, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, which, I mean, in effect...

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Chapter 6: What were the key events during Philby's time at Cambridge?

290.433 - 314.668 David McCloskey

is based on Philby and takes a lot of elements from the story that we're going to tell and applies them to the fictional world of the circus in the George Smiley universe that John le Carré created. So Philby has this sort of massive impact on actual intelligence operations and then also in the way that we spy novelists render these intelligence operations in the pages of spy fictions.

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314.648 - 336.311 Gordon Carrera

Yeah, that's right. I feel like every kind of story of a molehunt kind of nods to Philby. But then he's also even more than that. I mean, I think, you know, he has this kind of psychological trauma that he inflicts, not just on MI6, but also the entire British establishment. And I think you could make the case that he's actually one of the most significant Britons of the 20th century.

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336.892 - 343.581 Gordon Carrera

You know, significant, not one of the best, you know, I'm not kind of comparing him to Churchill or Thatcher or whoever else. Sure. No, no, no.

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Chapter 7: How did Philby transition from academic to intelligence work?

343.661 - 359.816 Gordon Carrera

Let me clarify that. But what I mean is it's a story about spying, yes, but also in war and betrayal. But it's also about the kind of British obsessions with class, with the establishment, with the elite, all of that. is in the Philby story.

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359.836 - 387.226 Gordon Carrera

And I think for Brits, I find the obsession with Philby fascinating because I think there is an element of almost masochism in British culture because lots of people exert a fascination for the public, but this individual, Philby, holds such a fascination for so many people and yet he was a traitor who betrayed them. So it is a kind of odd relationship I think Britain has with Philby.

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387.586 - 404.412 Gordon Carrera

It is such a big story that we should say we're going to do it in two sections. We're going to do young Philby now, going through his rise up to the pinnacle of his achievements, and then later on we'll come back and look at his equally dramatic downfall, I guess.

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404.572 - 408.578 David McCloskey

In a proper dose, Gordon, of moral clarity, we should just say up front,

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Chapter 8: What were the implications of Philby's recruitment by Soviet intelligence?

408.558 - 433.3 David McCloskey

He's a bad guy, right? I'm trying to corner you here because in our Snowden series that we did last year, you showed disturbingly kind of wishy-washy sentiment about the ethics of what Teddy Snowden had done. And I think it's fair to say you'll show no such sympathies here. Is that right?

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434.343 - 454.292 Gordon Carrera

Well, I don't want to enhance my reputation because some of your friends, I think, some of your former agency colleagues see me as some kind of pinko commie. But I do have some kind of, what's the word, not sympathy, residual respect for Phil Beattie. First of all, let me just say, I think he's a lot classier than the CIA traitors.

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454.272 - 473.206 Gordon Carrera

Your traitors, they're like, Aldrich Ames, who's the equivalent, is just basically a guy who's trying to betray the CIA for some better teeth than to buy a Jaguar car. I mean, that's what, you know, Philby is much classier. You know, we have a classier kind of traitor. That's the first thing to say. I feel like we're having two different conversations here.

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473.226 - 492.087 David McCloskey

Immediately, the comparison point was how classy of a traitor is he? So we're just comparing, we're not comparing him to all of the sort of loyal intelligence officers in either Secret Service. It's just a comparison among those who have betrayed the Secret Service. I would give you that.

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492.167 - 512.37 David McCloskey

I mean, we also looked last year at the case of Edward Lee Howard, who betrayed the CIA and defected to Moscow. And, you know, Edward Lee Howard was a way less classy guy. than Kim Philby. Yeah, hard drinking. But not as classy as old Kim.

513.351 - 529.896 Gordon Carrera

I also think there's another way of seeing the Philby story. Because you could see it, David, as the story of a young man, an idealist, with a strain of adventure, wants to fight fascism, falls in love, becomes a brave foreign correspondent and wants to change the world.

530.357 - 554.389 Gordon Carrera

Yes, he may then go on to be the country's greatest traitor, inflict untold damage on both British intelligence agencies, betray his friends, his colleagues, his country and lead to the death of many agents. But... We all make mistakes when we're young, David. We're all youthful in discretion, surely. That's my approach to Philby. He's a young guy, he makes mistakes, gets trapped in them.

554.63 - 572.856 David McCloskey

Who hasn't sold out their entire country in Secret Service for a dose of youthful idealism, Gordon? You bring up some great points. Also, I will say, listeners who I think have become accustomed to Gordon Carrera just

573.022 - 602.375 David McCloskey

viciously editing the early lives of characters that appear in The Rest is Classified and showing no interest whatsoever in the loves, passions, family lives, interior lives of those that we cover on this pod are going to be in for a real surprise because, Gordon, you have... I mean, you have essentially written a four-part series on the early and sort of family life of Kim Philby.

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