196. How America Talks Itself Into Endless Wars
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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America acts like a self-interested superpower that wants the Strait of Hormuz open or wants access to oil. And then we put a narrative around it that is much more grandiose. People around the world have figured out don't believe the narrative because at the end of the day, they're going to act in a pretty narrow self-interest. We've seen in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Libya, now in Iran, and it's led us to make mistake after mistake after mistake. No Democrat has taken billions of dollars for his family's crypto business for the Emiratis. No Democrat has taken a billion dollar plane from the Qataris. It's a scale of corruption that we've just never seen in American politics. We are being algorithmically polarized.
Donald Trump has been the perfect person for that because he knows if he gets up at a rally and speaks for an hour, he doesn't have to give a coherent speech. The algorithm will do all the work for him.
What does American foreign policy rhetoric reveal about military intervention failures?
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Welcome to Thristless Politics Leading with me, Rory Stewart. And me, Alistair Campbell. We are with Ben Rhodes. This is a great guest to have at this time as we approach the 250th anniversary of the United States of America. And people struggle with the concept of American identity right now. Ben is somebody who was alongside Barack Obama for eight years as a speechwriter. Pretty good gig that, given what an orator Barack Obama was and is. But also as a national security advisor. and somebody who's remained very, very active in the American political debate, not least with his podcast, Pod Save the World. But interestingly, I was up most of the night waiting for France to play Iraq, but then getting through your latest book,
which is a collection of 15 speeches that tell the story of America, which were fascinating. And you have this line in there where you say, transition from Barack Obama to Donald Trump seemed dizzying at the time, but it's natural when viewed in the sweep of American history. So I can't wait to get into that.
But thanks for being here.
It's great to be with you guys. But I thought I was going to live in Brooklyn and be a writer and go down that path. And on 9-11, I was working for a local city council campaign. handing out flyers at a polling site. It was voting day in New York. And I witnessed the attacks.
How has algorithm-driven political polarization affected political speech?
And all of a sudden, being a 23-year-old, you know, sitting in an outer borough New York apartment writing short stories about being a 23-year-old writer seemed incredibly trivial. And I wanted to be a part of whatever... happened next. I actually went to an army recruiter. And it's funny, they looked at me, this is before they had kind of gotten the message, you know, vacuum everybody up who walks in the door. Because the guy looked at me and said, Well, we have nothing for you to do. You're a fiction writer. Like, I don't really know why you're here. So I ended up applying for journalism jobs in DC, I thought I'd write about foreign policy.
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Chapters
7 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–1:01
2
What does American foreign policy rhetoric reveal about military intervention failures?
1:01–3:55
3
How has algorithm-driven political polarization affected political speech?
3:55–12:08
4
How does Ben Rhodes describe the transition from Obama to Trump?
12:08–13:00
5
Is Donald Trump an anomaly or part of a historical cycle in American politics?
13:00–21:15
6
How do social media algorithms influence political discourse?
21:15–22:10
7
What is the role of a speechwriter in shaping political narratives?
22:10–1:09:58
Speakers
3 identifiedMore from The Rest Is Politics: Leading
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202. Maoz and Aziz
201. How Westminster Breaks Politicians and Why Britain Isn't Ready for War