Chapter 1: What are the main highlights from Game 4 of the Spurs-Thunder series?
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann, bright and early on this Memorial Day. Happy Memorial Day. Are you looking for some leaf blowers, Rob? Like what do we got going on here? How are you celebrating?
Not by buying a leaf blower. You know, not all of us can flex our property owning privilege like you can, Justin. It may be nice for you out there, but the rest of us are just scraping by. We're just trying to make ends meet.
I have a leaf blower. Justin, you have one as well. Are we in the club?
I bought a corded one. So when you have to plug it into the wall and I've regretted it ever since.
Well, when your yard's that small, you can probably get away with it, right? Or at least an extension cord. I tell you guys, hey man, your money goes further out here in Louisville. We have more space here. I would say that. But I also am of the mind of like, you know, selling the virtues of life here. But also I kind of like when people talk trash because then that means they won't come here.
That's what I was going to say. So I'm all about that. You're gatekeeping Louisville?
well i just when people go and shit on it they're just like oh i'm like no it's fine don't come we like it we like it chill here we don't want to turn into nashville we're not interested in that but i was gonna say memorial day is this funny thing it has it in common with you know like labor day or fourth of july where i go through this annual cycle of um realizing i want a grill on those days and then not thinking about it the other the rest of the year and then
And then going off full calendar and coming back and be like, man, it'd be nice to grill today. But I don't know that we're ever going to break out of that cycle.
Well, this is the difference between you and me, Kyle, is I have reached a point in my life where I spend 80% of my waking moments wanting a grill.
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Chapter 2: Is Wemby already the greatest player in the league?
So it's just a constant background thought. And today it is unfortunate that I have to confront it more overtly. But we'll figure out a way to get some wings or hot dogs or burgers going in our own right. It may take a little maneuvering.
So what do you do instead? You got like a hot plate situation going?
I mean, I do have a grill pan, but it's not the same. No one can pretend it's the same.
Well, speaking of being charbroiled, we got to talk about the Cleveland Cavaliers a little bit later. But first, we got to talk about the big old series that is now tied 2-2, Spurs, Thunder. But first, let's take a break. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. The conference finals are here. Think you know how it'll go down? Take your shot with FanDuel and get closer to the action.
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Chapter 3: Who do the Knicks want to win the Western Conference?
All right, we're broadcasting to you live to tape Monday morning after a big game four. So we have a chance now to reset. I feel like we've gotten lucky of late. Every Monday or every couple Mondays, it's been like the end of a round. We get a chance to do some variables action. But right now, we have just a blank slate in Spurs Thunder. Three games to decide this whole thing.
Rob, how are you just feeling in general about this entire series? What's your big picture view of what's going on here?
A little bummed, I think, as many of us are by some of the injury specifics. But overall, lived up to my expectations. It's been a super fun series to watch. We're seeing just like the challenging and ascendance of some of the great stars in the game.
I don't know that you can ask a lot more of a conference final than this, especially when you flash across to the east and you see everything that sometimes a conference finals can be as far as like how quickly and unceremoniously some teams get dismissed.
Yeah, we're seeing on the other side how bad it can be, like Rob was saying, but there are a ton of different storylines going on. It's just fun to see this team, this defending champ, be met with these problems that they're being met with. You know, the ascending Wimby, the ascending Stephon Castle, who was, you know, we'll talk more about him, who was...
Forged in the fires of hell, that guy, that demon. I was struck last night watching the speed and the athleticism of this game, and it kind of flashed me back to like 2010, 2011 OKC. That's what it most reminds me of in terms of like the young athleticism that's ready ahead of schedule.
It's like this Spurs team really does remind me of that Harden-Westbrook-Durant thing, and it's kind of a one-to-one analog in an interesting way, except the Durant in this situation is 7'4", 7'5". Yeah.
Well, it's funny because we don't ever have the whole like, will it be Russ or Harden with any of the guards going on with the Spurs? Perhaps we moved along. But right. Maybe we just haven't gotten to that point yet. I'd like to believe that perhaps we're more evolved as a discourse. But if anything, we're probably the exact opposite. We're worse than ever before.
But I have five big questions on the docket for you guys as we kind of turn the page, reset and kind of look forward.
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Chapter 4: What strategies can the Thunder employ against the Spurs?
No, I would say variables tend to be specific themes or bigger picture sorts of things. These are just like questions that are about the series and associated questions as we've learned along the way. One's maybe like a 10,000 foot view. One's more of like a 10 foot view.
A 10-foot view? I thought we're at least getting up in the air a little bit. We're at least like a drone.
Well, for us, 10 feet is a lot. We're not all 7'2 over here, buddy.
You know, it's a fair point. I was trying to think last night when we were watching the game because there was a play where Wimby had like a really casual dunk where he didn't jump. And I was like, what's the height of the basketball goal? Because that it would have to be for me to operate the way that Wimby does. And I was like, is it seven foot?
Chapter 5: How does the Knicks-Cavs matchup impact the Eastern Conference Finals?
Because I was like, I think it's seven feet. My friend was like, dude, if you put your arms in the air, it's like, you know, you're going to get to seven feet. And I was like, it still might be seven feet. I got it. I don't really. Rob's bigger. I definitely had that thought process during the game last night.
It's always hanging on the net too. I'm always like, is that a competitive advantage?
Yeah, that was like, what on earth?
It's just a flex. It's just a little reminder that, hey, I'm out here. I am indeed this tall. This is this easy for me. Right.
He does it with the ease of someone who's taller than someone and they put their arm over their head and rest on it just to kind of big boy them.
That was me with the two of you as we did all of our group chat promotional photo shoots. That was an awful day. That was an awful day. To be fair, they asked for it. They demanded that I do that to the two of you. So maybe they big boyed you more than I did.
Could we not get some forced perspective? Justin and I should have insisted on some Peter Jackson, let's make... Let's even it out a little bit. I never considered the leg extension surgery until that day. I thought about it briefly.
Or at least get like the De Niro shoes. Like, do you remember the scenes from behind the scenes of the Irishman and they were all wearing like 10 foot platforms in order to be the same size? I mean, someone knows. Anyway, all right, five big questions. Big ones, not just normal ones, as Rob is alluding to. First and foremost, other than star power.
So we're going to talk about Wemby, we're going to talk about Shay, but I'm talking about anything beyond that. What's kind of going to be determining this series? Like one word for it.
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Chapter 6: What is the significance of player depth in the playoffs?
I'm actually going to nominate myself here. Can I go first? Please. Because I do think a lot about depth just in general, both with the series, but also with the Thunder in their kind of run over the past couple of years. So even in this game, before it got to garbage time, they played 11 guys. And that's without J-Dub, without A.J. Mitchell. They have played their most used lineup this playoffs.
It only has 70 minutes thus far, and we're already in midway through the conference finals. It is at times like their biggest strength. And I have to wonder if we're looking for counters, which we'll do later, like what can Mark Dagnall go to? There are a lot of options here in order to figure things out. And so I have faith that the Thunder. can figure something out still.
On the other hand, this was the first game I felt like the depth just wasn't enough and perhaps what they actually needed was some of those more traditional star qualities because they lacked J-Dub, they lacked A.J. Mitchell, and all of a sudden they single guard SGA and they put a little bit more emphasis on guarding some of the kickout shooters and everything else.
And all those guys seemed a little bit more pedestrian. And you're wondering, where is this big old next wave going to come from? Where is the help going to come from for SGA? More of a typical...
like conversation around a star who isn't uh meeting our expectations and i mean we can make this a chat conversation we can make this a bunch of different ways rob but overall i'm thinking depth like will this be a strength for the thunder or have the spurs found a way to almost play it to a point where it isn't enough because they have the horses in order to come out on top of this
Yeah, I mean, I think the Thunder probably have more guys they can play, just like period, than any other team in the league. Like more good NBA players who you could throw into the playoffs and feel fine about their minutes. But do they have enough of the right things?
And this kind of alludes to what you're mentioning there, Justin, where it's like, do you have the sufficient ball handling and secondary creation and the exact skill sets you're missing with J-Dub and A.J. Mitchell and that out there? That's so much harder to replicate.
And it's particularly hard to replicate if you don't have the kind of flow and movement and drive and kick rhythm that the Thunder often rely on. And that's where single covering Shea
isolating him and like really zoning out a lot of those shooters and a lot of that flow that the Thunder would be getting into I mean it just kind of strangled the life out of what OKC was trying to do and so I I agree with you that there are a lot of different levers to pull but none of them really say like hey give this other guy the ball a bunch like these just aren't really players who are conditioned or who are really even have the skill sets to handle that kind of thing yeah I think it's the star thing but it's exacerbated by the the schematic stuff that
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Chapter 7: Should LeBron return to the Cavs, and what would that mean?
Shea would be in whatever it was like a dribble handoff and he comes around the corner and there's somebody there's one person in the corner whether or not that's you know it would vary obviously because they have so many dudes but it might be McCain it might be Jalen and Jalen Williams you know Arkansas Jalen Williams that is but they weren't sitting like there were plays where like Champagny would be all the way over into the gap like stationary waiting for him at the elbow and
or it'd be Castle or whatever it was.
It's like they were playing back a little bit more and not getting there as early, so not giving Shea that option, which is putting those guys – when you're catching the ball with a guy who's doing a shorter closeout on you, you kind of need to have more of a like, all right, that first shot is not there initially, and I have to kind of go have a little bit of boogie off the dribble and make something happen.
I think that stress, that spot is where not having A.J. Mitchell – not having J Dub. Um, those are the two guys that case and can give you a little bit of that. Those are the two guys that kind of have like multifaceted skill sets. Like they can dribble past, shoot, make something happen. And when you have, you know, a guy, you know, some of those later guys like a door or, or a, or a case.
And, um, You're just seeing the strain of that a little more. You're seeing Jalen Williams take shots that aren't as open. You're seeing Chet take shots that aren't as open. I think it's putting a strain on those guys who aren't there and making it obvious how much they miss those guys.
As much as Jerry McCain's been a revelation, I think health has just been such a huge thing, tying it to the depth for OKC.
And a lot of that help you're talking about, Kyle, that's strong side corner kind of cheating into the gaps, which is historically the spot you don't want to help off of, that you don't want to overcommit from.
And yet I think the combination of the Spurs being such a good closeout team when they do gamble an edge into Shea's space a little bit, and also some of the shooters you're talking about, not only not having the sufficient level of boogie, as you put it, to attack the basket there, But a lot of them have a little bit of windup to their shots too.
Like Jalen Williams, J Will, is a very good shooter. But like many bigs, it takes him a sec to kind of load that thing up. And so you can, if you are Champagny, you can recover back in time, right? If you are one of these Spurs help defenders, you can close that gap.
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Chapter 8: What are the implications of this series for the future of the Thunder?
Champagny blocked him. Champagny blocked it? Yeah. You know, Julian Champagny, not the best go-to stopper in the world, but man, he's had some amazing help side blocks at the rim, closing out to guys on the perimeter. Down to a man, the Spurs are just really good at their collective managing of all of these other kind of supplementary thunder threats on the floor.
Yeah, I know everything starts with Wemby being on the floor there, and he creates so many advantages defensively for everybody else just purely by standing there in the paint. But this is the first time I was marveling at the rest of the defense, and in particular, Stephon Castle. Everything was just so frenetic and chaotic for the Thunder in a way that it hasn't been this series, and Castle...
in particular, just like his defense overall, just marveling at that. He just has that rare combination of physicality, but also like he marries this sort of intuitive sense he has offensively with his playmaking and his passing to his defense to the point where it's almost like you're watching him mirror SGA and like beat him to spots.
And because he's so physical and athletic, like he's able to do so much. And it's just like to get that from a guy that you're counting on so much on both ends, it's just like, Few teams have this advantage. It's just like it's like watching Case and Wallace, but also having like a different player offensively out there.
And so, I mean, if they're able to guard like that going forward, this seems pretty difficult.
It does seem really difficult. I mean, especially because the Thunder shooters in that alignment just were not ready for the trickle-down pressure that comes with having to make shots in tighter spaces, on faster timing, out of their normal rhythm.
And that wasn't just the borderline guys, you know, like the Lou Dortz and the Cason Wallaces who we usually talk about, even Chet's kind of in that category. But even their good shooters weren't hitting against that level of kind of... I want to say pressure, but that kind of implies the hard doubling.
And if anything, it's more of like a stay at home philosophy that is just making it harder to get any daylight for the Thunder at all. But I suspect we're all going to circle around the same kinds of ideas as far as like what is the defining factor in the series going forward. To me, depth is a huge part of it.
I had written down attrition just about like how these teams are dealing with who is hurt, who is limited, who is available to go and who isn't.
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