Finding Peak w/ Ryan Hanley
The 5-Minute Habit That Prevents 99% of Leadership Failure | Dr Michelle Johnston
21 Jan 2026
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The harder you grind, the worse leader you actually become. That's not a motivational quote, that's a warning. And today's guest, Dr. Michelle Johnston says, most leaders don't fail from incompetence. They fail because they mistake discipline for disconnection. And once you hear how subtle this shift is, you won't ever be able to unsee it in your own business.
Lock in friends, this is another episode of Finding Peak. What are you seeing in the market right now that was the impetus for your book, the seismic shift in you?
Chapter 2: What is the main reason most leaders fail?
What did you see that you're like, I have to address this? There needs to be this book about this topic. What were you seeing?
Yes, great question, Ryan. So I'm an executive coach, and I was coaching all these leaders who were at the top of their game and thinking they were doing everything right and having all of the one-on-one meetings and all of the team meetings and all of the off-sites.
Chapter 3: How can leaders shift from discipline to connection?
And they were telling me that at the end of the day, they were burned out, drained. They were struggling, finding purpose, that there was something not working. And so my co-author, Marshall Goldsmith, and I were at the Thinkers 50 Awards in London. in 2023, and we're listening to all the top thinkers. The Thinkers 50 is called the Oscars of Management Thinking.
We're listening to the Amy Edmondsons, you know, at Harvard, Psychological Safety, and the Kirsten Fergusons of Heart and Humanity. We're listening to Dori Clark and Ruth Gotian, all these amazing speakers talking about the chaos like you identified around us and how technology is making us think that we're connected, and yet we're lonelier than we've ever been in the history of the planet.
We're more disconnected. We're more anxious. We're totally addicted to our technology, and it's only going to get worse. And so the big question on the table was, what in the world can leaders do with this chaos, with this addiction to technology, and it's not making us feel good? And so my whole brand is the seismic shift, right?
So my first book, The Seismic Shift in Leadership, was I believe the biggest seismic shift is towards connection. This book addresses this disconnection epidemic that we're in, and it's more geared towards humans. of how I truly believe, Ryan, we need to shift from the what to the who. And that's going to make all the difference.
We've got caught up in the progress, progress, progress, progress, progress, achievement, achievement, achievement, achievement, task, task, task. One of my colleagues, Rhett Powers, said it beautifully. He said, it's not lost in translation. It's lost in transaction. We're just full of transactions and yet not full of meaning.
Okay, I have so many questions here. So one, I want to... I'm going to ask this question, and I mean it with no disrespect to the people who go to things like Fingers 50, right?
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Chapter 4: What inspired Dr. Johnston to write 'The Seismic Shift in You'?
But I would consider myself, for better or for worse, very much like... in the shit, right? I deal with people who are in the shit. You know, I am very, you know, I don't roll in the big academic circles. I tend to, you know, we talk a lot about on the show, you know, what I loosely call like a reality operating system.
Like life seems to make more sense when we operate in reality, not the fantasy that we wish existed. And I find a lot of times when I read books, highfalutin academics that have theories and stats. And I surveyed 738 CEOs and they told me X. And when I'm talking to the people who really do this stuff, it's like they seem like luxury concerns, right? This is kind of my question.
So many of the people that listen to this show are not the Fortune 500s, they're the Fortune 5000s and below. They're the mid-market operators, entrepreneurs, startup people, side hustles trying to get to an entrepreneurial endeavor. And I think oftentimes the feedback I get is like, man, that guest, she was incredible and the information was great, but like...
I don't experience any of those problems, actually. Those seem like luxury problems. How do we discern the luxury problems of this chaotic, I feel disconnected with, like, I just got to pay my bills. I've got to sell X widgets. And chaos is just part of it. Because it feels like marrying that is what you're solving. Absolutely. That's the hard part.
Yes. And what I have realized working in it as well, in the trenches in it as well, is if we just focus on results, results, results, results. I don't have time for that bullshit. I don't have time for connection. What are you talking about? I have to get my shit done. Excuse all the cursing. You're fine. And...
And yet what I've learned is you can't get there unless you spend time with your people, unless you build trust, unless you occasionally curse, unless you say, man, before we get into our agenda, man, Ryan, how are you really? Like, how was your weekend? What is Albany like right now? You've got to spend time, and it's not a whole lot of time.
If you can just take about 10 minutes, you know, once a week with your team, really going deeper with connection, you will get those hardcore results, the financial performance that you need to stay alive and pay the bills. And what I'm realizing, too, is I almost it's funny, Ryan, I guess once you're a hammer, all you see is a nail. I almost can't get away from connection. You'll love this.
So I took a sabbatical from Loyola to write this book because I thought it is what every human needs right now. We have to go from the what now. to the who, while still accomplishing our goals if we want more meaning, more satisfaction in our lives. And so I had all the research that said you will achieve your financial performance much more if you focus on your people.
I had all the engagement scores, all these metrics. So I put all that aside, finished the book, and I thought, ah, I'm going to pick up a book to read for leisure. This is going to be great. And I promised my daughter she's in college. And I promised her that I was going to live to 100. So I picked up this book, Living to 100. I'm like, cool. I've got to figure out this equation.
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Chapter 5: What are the consequences of disconnection in leadership?
She was complaining about guys in general, right? She's dating, she's in her forties and she's complaining. She's like, you know, She's like, I miss guys holding doors. Kind of the classic guys have lost chivalry kind of conversation, which I think is very true.
I got divorced three years ago, and I didn't realize how bad it was until I started going on dates with women, and they would tell me their horror stories, and I'm like, holy shit, this is what you deal with on a day-to-day basis? So guys, step your game up.
So she was complaining about that, and then the conversation kind of morphed into old school values versus new school values, and I don't want to make it... political necessarily, but I tend to skew more towards old school values. However, one of the things that I think
we have started to crack that's so important is you can be a strong, confident person and still have feelings and emotions and communicate once in a while. How do these guys in particular, although I know it happens to women too, but I think this is a particularly poignant problem for men who want to be that... And I think not often for bad reasons, for good reasons.
They want to be the lighthouse in the storm, right? They feel like that's their role, but then they have no ability to communicate. Like, their team sees them as a dictator, and in their mind, they're this benevolent savior, like, you know, keeping the waves from the town. And... A lot of times it's communication.
So what are some of those early communication steps that someone can start to take to actually convey, kind of crack that macho, alpha male kind of thing that so many guys try to play?
Yeah, so I do this exercise. I run the Saints Leadership Academy and the Pelicans, so our NFL team and our NBA team. And I do this exercise with the leaders. And I said, you know, close your eyes and just think about the best boss you've ever had. And what are those characteristics? And I'm here to tell you, Ryan, those characteristics are they cared about me. I felt seen.
They inspired me to do my best work because they understood my strengths. So this dictator kind of machismo leadership style is what the seismic shift is about because that is no longer effective. A really great leader achieves the results and inspires you towards that vision and gets you on that path. But they do it in a way that says, I see you. You matter. And I'm here for you.
I'm here to develop you. You have tremendous gifts and strengths. So a couple of techniques, and your question really was, what are a couple of communicative techniques that these guys can use? First of all, you begin every interaction with, how are you, comma, really, right? And I want to know deeper. And then I want you to eliminate. But so I want all these listeners out there.
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Chapter 6: How can leaders effectively build trust with their teams?
And I got three jerks over here I'm dealing with, but keep going. You're amazing, right?
Ryan, if you said that to me, I would be on cloud nine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's all it takes. That's all it takes. So it sounds to me like maybe a lot of people, maybe they think it's more than it needs to be. They make it too complicated. Yes.
And that's why they don't do it. Yes. And Chester Elton, one of my favorite people, he wrote Leading with Gratitude. And he kept hearing because he believes that that is the secret sauce to great leadership is really saying thank you. I'm grateful for the work you're doing and leading with gratitude is going to get you far.
And the pushback he received was leaders would say, well, I don't want to say it too much because then it's going to kill their motivation. I don't want to be like too nice. How many times? So he conducted a study to see how many times was too much. And he said he found that the average per day was maybe one, one thank you. And because leaders were scared, they'd do it too much.
And that too much was over nine times, and no one in the history of his research ever did it nine, seven, eight, nine times. So you almost can't say it enough.
What does it say about human nature that the first instinct of people is, see this awesome thing? Well, I don't want to do it too much. You would think ā I guess where my mind goes with that is like let's say I said it five times a day, which would still be a lot and great. It almost is ā it doesn't demotivate them because they don't want to go to three events. thank like ass pats a day.
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Chapter 7: What are practical steps to improve communication as a leader?
And I see that as complete cop out. Like that's fear, that scarcity mindset. Like how does how do you rattle someone out of that cage? Because that that just that road leads nowhere. That dog does not hunt.
Oh my gosh. So I always, you had mentioned how to get people's attention to that they need to kind of pivot towards connection. And I begin any coaching contract, any coaching relationship with a 360. And that's what really motivates change is when you see it in writing, how other people say your inability to delegate is
is causing me to want to look for another job it's making me feel like I'm not adding any value because you're going to end up doing it anyhow or you're going to come behind my back and second guess or proofread or change this that is the number one theme that comes up in 360s that really gets in the way of great leadership is the leader thinks oh I'm going to get in all the details because then I know it's perfect but perfection is not disconnect perfection is disconnection
So you will not have a close relationship with your people if you're constantly micromanaging. You've got to pull up, man. You want to be a great leader? A great leader is strategic. Pull up. Trust your people.
Plus, like, this is ā so I was talking to a guy the other day. I was after a keynote and ā After I get done keynoting, I want like a beer so badly. Like my, I don't know what it is. I don't want any, it's not, I don't need five. I need one and I need a beer. No other alcohol. It's just like something about that. Like read all my dopamine comes back, whatever I lose during it. Okay.
So I'm standing at the bar. I'm just kind of having a beer, whatever guy comes up and we start chit-chatting. And we're talking about ā I've done like ā I have this keynote that I do around positioning yourself as a leader in the age of AI, like how to handle this technology philosophically and systematically. And he's asking me a couple questions, and he's like, you know, just ā
I know if I do it, I get it done right, right? I get it done right. And I said, well, you know, so there's only one way to do it. And he goes, well, I go, you know, I'm like, so there's multiple ways to get it done. Yeah, okay. Well, so why is your way the only right way? Well, I mean, I guess it's not. I just know it's going to get done. Oh, okay. So it's not that your way is the only way.
It's just that you then know it gets done. So are you just not holding your people accountable? Did you not set boundaries for what's acceptable for success? Like, it... That, that I'm holding as a badge of honor, their perfectionism and it gets done the right way. In my opinion is, is scaffolding for the real problem, which is I didn't build an elevator in my business, right?
That's what this is. Like I didn't build the systems and processes and communicate to my people what actually needs to get done. So I'm just going to do it myself and then go, what was me? Look how hard I work. Why doesn't anyone else want to work 20 hours a day? Bullshit. And I'm like,
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Chapter 8: How do leaders prioritize their own well-being?
He goes, yeah, for you.
Yeah.
So my point in being really vulnerable and sharing that with you is then I called Marshall up, which was the appropriate channel because he actually picks up the phone. He's old school. And I said, Marshall, what would work best for you? He goes, oh, yeah, no, no, no, Michelle, I'm writing the book with you because I support you. I love your writing, love your brand. Write the book first.
and then send it to me. So it's never too late. That was probably a couple months into this as I was banging my head against the wall, but it's never too late. Like, oh, okay, wish I would have had this earlier, but we can course correct. I will not bother you every week. I will write my book, and then we'll talk about how you can add in your martialisms. So it's never too late.
Keystone conversation, critical.
I appreciate you sharing that story with us. There's so much power in that, like, Because I think what gets lost for a lot of people that you just articulated so incredibly well is like you thought you were doing the right thing. Like in your head, you're like, I'm being proactive. I'm showing him how excited I am to work with him and all this stuff.
And like in your brain, you are doing nothing wrong. You're just full tilt value to him. And in his mind, he's like, holy crap.
crap i can't you know and and it took that one conversation it's um i drove him nuts he was probably thinking why did i agree to write with this crazy woman but we were you know we course corrected and we write you know we we ended up writing the ship thank goodness so yeah keystone conversation again i wish to goodness i'd come up with that concept because i think it's brilliant and so easy yeah i agree and i love your i love your idea that it's not too late like
I actually was talking to my ex-wife the other day. She owns a business, and she was talking about one of her employees, and they've just been struggling, and da-da-da. And I was like, well, have you talked to her about what's going on? And she's like, well, no, she's kind of standoffish. I'm like, she's your team member. You can just sit her down and talk to her, maybe.
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