Matt Orsagh spent 25 years inside mainstream finance, including as Senior Director of Capital Markets at the CFA Institute. Then he concluded that ESG was painting the house while it was on fire. Now, as co-founder of the Arketa Institute for Post-Growth Finance, he makes the case that a post-growth world is coming, by disaster or by design. We discuss why degrowth is a diet, not austerity; why green growth collides with physics and the Jevons paradox; and his answer to the Global South objection: Africa should be allowed to grow, it is the Global North that needs the diet. Plus a radical rethink of pensions, a third of the world's assets, built on natural and social capital, not just piles of gold. Listen, then share it with someone who still believes efficiency will save us.

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