In this episode of the Social-Engineer podcast, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by Dr. Ida Ngambeki, an Assistant Professor of Computer and Information Technology at Purdue University. Listen in as they discuss importance of empathy and the best ways to teach social engineering. April 12, 2021 00:00 – Intro Join Social-Engineering on Slack Clutch The Innocent Lives Foundation 03:25 – Introduction to Dr. Ida Ngambeki 04:20 – How Ida got into social engineering 08:45 – Teaching the next generation of social engineers 11:30 – Teaching the distinct aspects of social engineering 17:05 – The difference between a pentester and a malicious actor 19:01 – The importance of bias and assumptions 20:36 – Ida's unconventional path to social engineering expertise 24:42 – The importance of empathy in security education 27:50 – The three aspects of empathy 30:04 – Diversity in the information security industry 34:22 – Chris getting held at gunpoint 39:50 – The problem with fear-based pretexts 42:32 - Ida's industry mentors Donna Riley Demitra Evangelou Melisa Dark Alejandrah Magana William Gratiano Mark Rogers 45:14 – Ida's book recommendations Terry Pratchett The Secret Lives of Baba Segi's Wives Neil Gaiman The Tenth Muse Code Girls 47:59 – Ida's contact info cybersecurelab.com Purdue's Website 49:23 – Maxie's book The Art of Attack: Attacker Mindset for Security Professionals 51:02 - Outro Maxie on Twitter Chris on Twitter Social-Engineer on Twitter

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