In this conversation, Richard and Vernon discuss the need for manual test cases and manual testing in the future, particularly in the context of the rise of no code automation and AI.They explore the underlying skills and activities involved in testing, such as critical thinking, analysis, communication, and understanding oracles and heuristics. They also touch on the importance of context and problem-solving in determining the appropriate testing approach. The conversation highlights the value of automation as a means to offload effort and gather information, rather than as an end in itself. In this conversation, Richard and Vernon discuss the importance of automation in testing and how it helps confirm the tester's knowledge of the system.They also explore the concepts of glue work, quiet quitting, and quality engineering. Vernon shares his upcoming talk on setting quality engineers up for success and the challenges they face in organisations. They discuss the positioning of testers and the need for a cultural shift towards quality engineering. They invite listeners to share their thoughts and feedback on the topics discussed.00:00 - ⚽️ Footy (1 min)00:39 - Intro01:54 - How will low-code and no-code automation tools impact the need for manual testers and manual test cases?07:50 - How does Generative AI and/or Large Language Models (LLMs) change the answer?20:39 - Issac Asmimov tangent!21:18 - SPOILER ALERT! PLEASE SKIP IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE INCREDIBLE ISAAC ASIMOV STORY "PROFESSION" (I HOPE BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO READ IT YOURSELF!)24:27 - SPOILER END!!!33:07 - Vernon's talk: How We're Setting Up QEs To FailLinks to stuff we mentioned during the pod:07:50 - AI, Generative AI and Large Language Models (LLMs)Useful material:Microsoft course AI for Beginners07:50 - Dr Tariq KingTariq's LinkedIn07:50 - Melissa EadenMelissa's LinkedIn09:52 - The book AI-Assisted Testing by Mark WinteringhamGrab the book hereMark's websiteMark's LinkedIn10:53 - Knowledge workOur previous discussion on Knowledge Work in Episode 1A definition of knowledge work from Wikipedia13:59 - Vernon's Scripting Vs Exploring workshop he delivered at the European Testing Conference (ETC)14:03 - ETC (organised by Maaret Pyhäjärvi) is now sadly on hiatus27:26 - Doug Hoffman and High Volume Automated Testing (HiVAT)An explanation of HiVAT by Cem KanerDoug's LinkedIn33:25 - The Agile Yorkshire meetup organised by Royd BrayshayThe Agile Yorkshire websiteRoyd's LinkedIn33:59 - Cassandra H. LeungCassandra's blogCassandra's LinkedIn34:22 - Tanya ReillyTanya's websiteTanya's Glue Work presentation which you can read or watchTanya's LinkedIn37:22 - "What Is Quiet Quitting?" a BBC News article describing the phenomenon38:23 - Jenna CharltonJenna's LinkedInThe presentation I referred to is called: "Imperfect Agile: Lessons Learned From Embracing The Journey And Ditching The Rules". It was great and I'll see if Jenna is willing and able to share a link to it as soon as I can🙂39:17 - Stuart DayStu's Quality Talks podcast that he co-hosts with Chris HendersonStu's LinkedInChris's Linkedin43:30 - Anna BaikAnna's LinkedInAnna's quote that Maaret shared on LinkedIn

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