The Basement: Joseph Matheny | The Man Who Hacked Reality Before the Internet Existed
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What is the significance of Joseph Matheny's alternate reality game?
Today I'm talking with Joseph Matheny, a writer and storyteller who built the Internet's first alternate reality game. He built a story so convincing, it made people believe a portal to another dimension was hidden in the New Jersey Pine Barrens. That whole state is another dimension. Be nice, I've got family in Jersey. Once you cross the GWB and hit Fort Lee, it's like an alternate universe. Wherever you left turn, there's a jug handle, and you're not allowed to pump your own gas. That story was Ong's hat, not published as a novel, but scattered across bulletin boards, websites, phone lines, pamphlets. The story felt real. Today, we'll talk about where that ARG came from and how it got weaponized.
And we'll get into his chatbot from the 90s. You see, he built Google before Google. He built ChatGPT before OpenAI, 30 years ago. This guy was spreading disinformation when Facebook was just a twinkle in Mr. Zuckerberg's eye. His lizard eye. Respect. Joseph's also been connected to the John Titor story, the time traveler who appeared on Art Bell. When I asked him about it, he said, well, this one gets weird. I'll see you after for a private wrap-up just between us. Let's go down to the basement. Joseph, welcome to the basement. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. I've been a fan for a long time. Before we dig in, I need to know W.C. Field's martini recipe and method. Oh, absolutely.
Talk to me by Robert Anton Wilson.
Really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What do we got?
He comes to my house one day and I said, Bob, I heard you like martinis. Well, I like martinis, but only a certain way. You have to make them right. And let me show you. Like, kid, move aside. So, okay, I moved aside. And while he's making his martini, he tells me the story that he read how this martini was made by W.C. Fields in a book. And so you take, put ice in the shaker. Then you pour the vermouth over the ice. Then you shake it around. Then you pour the vermouth out, leaving the ice in. Then you pour the vodka in. An important vodka, not gin.
Yes, sir.
You pour the vodka over the ice. Shake it very gently because you don't want to bruise the roof. Don't bruise the roof.
Right.
Yep. And then you pour it out.
Very nice.
Yeah. And it works.
I'm going to remember that method.
And that's the way I've eaten made martinis ever since.
So it's Robert Anton Wilson. So that's kind of a good segue to get back to the origin story. And we can go back as far as you want. I love the bookstore stuff and that's, synchronicities are crazy, but wherever you want to go. What made you the pioneer of ARGs? And that could be the last time we even say ARG today.
It goes, it's okay. We go back, let's go back a little bit.
Okay.
I remember when I read a book called No One Here Gets Out Alive, the story of Jim Morrison. And I like the way they did it is they put it in three sections. And basically it was like, so you realize that an arrow being drawn back and then a releasing of the arrow was the arc of Jim's story. Yep. I was a voracious reader when I was a kid. And my parents were cool in that they said, oh, he can read. They were happy. And so they rewarded me by saying, we will buy you books. And if you read these books, we will buy you more books. And so I would just tear through books. And so I used to buy, I was being kind to my parents. I came from a working class background. I said, used books are okay because I'm going to tear through them.
I'm probably going to mark them up. And then, you know, and I would get money to go to garage sales and, and just pick up whatever and so in my age i'm old i'm 64 years old so like in the 60s and 70s when i was growing up horror and the occult was very popular and so um i was big on the universal monsters the hammer films like all that kind of stuff anything to do with that i was reading So this is a funny segue. I'm at a garage sale and I'm like, the guy says, you can have all the books on the table for a dollar, but you got to pack them up and get out of here because I'm done. I'm like grabbing everything I thought was worth it.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the significance of Joseph Matheny's alternate reality game?
0:00–7:14
2
What role did Robert Anton Wilson play in Matheny's journey?
7:14–7:37
3
How did Matheny's background influence his storytelling?
7:37–1:00:42
4
How did Matheny's experiences shape his views on storytelling?
1:00:42–1:22:49
5
What early storytelling methods influenced Joseph Matheny?
1:22:49–1:24:30
6
How did Joseph Matheny create a predictive AI?
1:24:30–1:25:27
7
What unique experiences did Joseph have with his chatbot Emery?
1:25:27–1:26:42
8
How does Joseph connect his work to conspiracy theories and ARGs?
1:26:42–2:44:04
Speakers
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