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Today, Explained

How deportation broke the courts

12 Feb 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: Why are DOJ lawyers quitting their jobs?

0.605 - 20.396 Ian Millhiser

Lawyers for the Department of Justice are crashing out. The Dow, the Dow right now is over... The Dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing. Not Pam Bondi. That's a separate issue. No, the lawyers tasked with prosecuting immigration cases for the Trump administration are quitting, saying they have too much work.

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20.676 - 30.512 Ian Millhiser

One DOJ lawyer in Minnesota got a lot of attention last week when she told a judge, quote, this job sucks. A former DOJ chief of staff tweeted in desperation.

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30.993 - 34.578 Kyle Cheney

If you're interested in being an assistant U.S.

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34.658 - 39.268 Ian Millhiser

attorney... DM me. To which someone replied, your DMs aren't open.

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Chapter 2: What impact did Trump's administration have on immigration cases?

40.952 - 52.077 Ian Millhiser

When President Trump sent ICE into Minneapolis to run amok, his administration was bound to get sued. A bunch. The problem is he's running out of lawyers. That's coming up on Today Explained.

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60.038 - 71.711 Unknown

Support for this show comes from the Working Forest Initiative. The working forest industry is committed to planting more trees than they harvest. More than one billion seedlings are planted in U.S. working forests every year.

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71.771 - 95.192 Unknown

From biologists to GIS analysts, hiring managers, accountants, and more, working forest professionals have dedicated their focus towards sustainability, using their expertise to help ensure a healthy future for America's forests. You can learn more about Working Forest Initiatives at workingforestinitiatives.com.

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96.303 - 108.539 Noel King

Hi, this is Bella Freud. I'm the host of Fashion Neurosis. This week on the show, Esther Perel is on my couch. Erotic recovery is part of trauma healing.

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108.559 - 114.246 Unknown

God, that's interesting. It's not the reward at the end. Yeah. That's the difference.

114.286 - 118.912 Noel King

And I think we both come together around that construct.

118.932 - 119.253 Unknown

Yeah.

119.593 - 124.099 Noel King

Find Fashion Neurosis on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

129.057 - 131.683 Kyle Cheney

This is Today Explained.

Chapter 3: How did the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals rule on mass detention?

913.333 - 916.323 Unknown

Oh, yay. Oh, yay. Oh, yay.

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917.507 - 919.253 Noel King

This is Today Explained.

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920.437 - 943.532 Ian Millhiser

I'm Ian Millhiser. I cover the Supreme Court here for Vox. You recently wrote about a Department of Justice lawyer named Julie Lee, who, as I understand it, looked a federal judge in the eye and said, this job sucks. What happened? Yeah, she said more than that. At one point, she said that, like, sometimes she wants the judge to hold her in contempt so she can get a night's sleep.

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943.512 - 972.192 Ian Millhiser

So, yeah, what happened here is that Lee was an attorney for the Department of Homeland Security. She volunteered to take an assignment with the U.S. Attorney's Office in Minneapolis, which is handling this enormous crush of cases caused by the ICE occupation in Minneapolis. The workload they gave her was just insane, completely unmanageable by any one attorney.

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972.553 - 988.116 Ian Millhiser

She apparently was assigned to 88 cases in a single month. And, you know, that incredible workload that was placed on one lawyer turns out to be a microcosm for a lot of the dysfunction that is happening in Minneapolis.

Chapter 4: What are the implications of the Fifth Circuit's ruling?

988.4 - 1006.656 Ian Millhiser

88 cases. How many cases a month is normal? Do you know? So the short answer is it depends on the complexity of the case. You know, I've known lawyers who would spend months and months preparing for one trial, although that, you know, would be a very complex trial. I look for professional guidelines on this.

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1007.037 - 1033.464 Ian Millhiser

And like the professional guidelines say that prosecutors generally shouldn't be assigned more than 150 cases in a year. And this one was assigned 88 cases in a month. Oh, okay. Yeah, so that's about six or seven times more work. She was doing the work of about a half a dozen lawyers. And explain what Julie Lee's job is and what she said she was struggling to get done. Yeah.

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1033.484 - 1057.577 Ian Millhiser

So this is like somewhat counterintuitive. But like it turns out one of the reasons why immigrants are being treated so poorly in Minneapolis is because there aren't enough prosecutors. And like normally you don't think of prosecutors as being a good thing for people who are being locked up. Right. But what's happening is a lot of these immigrants are being detained illegally.

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1057.778 - 1068.714 Ian Millhiser

Judges are issuing orders saying, no, no, no, no, no, you have to release this person. There's one judge who complained that there are more than 90 court orders that the Trump administration has defied.

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1069.034 - 1083.055 Unknown

This month, the court has found ICE has violated 96 court orders in 74 cases. ICE has likely violated more court orders this month than some federal agencies have in their entire existence.

1083.035 - 1103.738 Ian Millhiser

And it looks like a huge reason for that is that the Trump administration, like they surged law enforcement officers. At its peak, there were 3,000 law enforcement officers that the federal government sent to Minneapolis. But they didn't send lawyers. They didn't send additional clerical staff in the detention facilities.

1103.978 - 1123.663 Ian Millhiser

And so what happens is a judge issues an order saying, hey, you need to release this person. They're being detained illegally. And normally, you know, that order would be sent to the lawyer. The lawyer would not would notify the detention facility of it. The detention facility would tell the guards, hey, you got to turn the key and let this person go.

1123.683 - 1144.172 Ian Millhiser

And, you know, the process would get underway. But because they surge the capacity to arrest people without adding additional personnel for all the legal compliance things that go into something like a massive occupation of a U.S. city. Judges are issuing orders to release people and those orders are not being followed.

1144.452 - 1169.564 Ian Millhiser

OK, so ICE is not following court orders because it sounds like in your telling they can't. They don't actually have the manpower to do it. What happens when the government cannot comply with court orders? I guess let me first answer what happens when someone other than the government defies a court order. Cool. And the answer is that you are held in contempt if you're really, really defiant.

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