Ready to churn less and win more? 🏆 Subscribe for a monthly roundup of every episode at gainsight.com/unchurnedTwo of SaaS's most influential voices just sounded the same alarm: Cassie Young, General Partner at Primary Ventures, and Kyle Poyar, founder of Growth Unhinged, both published viral articles warning of a "gross retention apocalypse" in AI-powered SaaS.Cassie's investigation revealed a shocking truth: when she called customer logos cited in AI fundraising decks, nine out of ten had already stopped using the product. Kyle's data showed founders bragging about hitting $10M ARR in a month with zero cohorts up for renewal.In this conversation, they unpack why explosive growth often masks catastrophic churn, distinguishing between Annual Recurring Revenue and what Cassie calls "Experimental Recurring Revenue" - revenue that evaporates when customers realize the product doesn't deliver.The discussion moves beyond diagnosis into what actually works. Kyle introduces forward-deployed engineering as a sales motion—getting customers live in production before they pay prevents churn better than any post-sales fix. Cassie argues we're entering a Customer Success Renaissance where the discipline evolves from reactive firefighting to strategic value delivery.---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Introduction1:36 - Meet Cassie Young & Kyle Poyar3:00 - The Gross Retention Apocalypse & AI Churn Wave7:25 - ERR vs ARR: The Red Herring - 9 out of 10 Customers Stopped Using10:00 - Series A's Done on "Vibes" 11:05 - What Investors Are Looking For14:40 - The Cluely Controversy: Distribution vs Product Quality16:15 - Why Fast Growth Means Nothing Without Retention Data21:15 - Customer Success as a Core Operating Philosophy29:30 Forward Deployed Engineers as Part of Sales Motion31:40 - Most Overrated Metric 32:08 - Most Underrated Metric33:10 - SaaS Principles That Will Last 10 Years35:30 - The Way Forward---What You’ll Learn* Why 9 out of 10 AI customers cited in fundraising decks have already churned* The critical difference between ARR and ERR (Experimental Recurring Revenue)* The "automatic pass test" top VCs use to evaluate startups in 60 seconds* How to identify your north star usage metric for predicting churn* Why distribution alone isn't enough (lessons from the Cluely phenomenon)* How the Customer Success TAM could 10X if companies focus on the right things---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---Where to Find Kyle Poyar:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-poyar/Substack: https://www.growthunhinged.com/Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mostly-growth/id1842238102Where to Find Cassie YoungLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassyoung---Where to Find Josh:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/---Resources: Cassie's article: https://topline.beehiiv.com/p/tech-is-on-the-brink-of-a-gross-retention-apocalypse-a-customer-success-renaissanceKyle's article: https://www.growthunhinged.com/p/the-ai-churn-wave

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