Nick and Raal sit down with Mikael Skov, CEO of Hafnia and one of the most influential operators in modern tanker shipping. Mikael outlines Hafnia’s evolution into one of the world’s largest product tanker operators, grounded in spot market exposure and global trading. He reflects on entering shipping by chance, why it quickly becomes a lifestyle, and how cycles hardwire behaviour, risk tolerance, and leadership mindset.The conversation moves to Hafnia’s post–financial crisis founding, the non-negotiable importance of assembling a credible team early, and what changes when you build alongside professional investors. Skov explains why pooling and partnerships matter, not as fee businesses but as a way to build commercial scale, trust, and resilience.Attention turns to growth, consolidation, and recent strategic moves, including the TORM stake, and counter-cyclical fleet investments. Skov discusses energy transition pragmatically, emphasising alignment with cargo owners, longer-term contracts, and learning through initiatives like C-Scale Energy.The episode closes with leadership and responsibility: managing volatility without paralysis, creating space for innovation inside large organisations, confronting the systemic risks of the dark fleet, and defending international regulation as the least-worst framework available in a fractured geopolitical world.A rare conversation with one of shipping’s most consequential operators who has built scale through cycles, stayed disciplined when others chased narratives, and is clear-eyed about what actually works in shipping.Chapters02:21 Entering shipping and why it becomes a lifestyle06:13 Cyclicality, spot markets, and competitive advantage07:56 Founding Hafnia after TORM09:31 Building a credible founding team for investors13:36 Timing the cycle and learning capital discipline20:47 Pooling, partnerships, and commercial scale31:03 Culture, governance, and growing a global organisation37:40 Buying ships at the bottom of the cycle41:12 TORM stake and consolidation logic44:06 Energy transition strategy and client alignment57:07 Long-term thinking versus quarterly markets1:01:38 Volatility, fleet age, and future supply

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