Pathological Demand Avoidance: The Lived Experience, with Kendahl Damashek
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The primary purpose of Uniquely Human the Podcast is to educate and inform. The views expressed during all episodes are solely those of the individuals involved and do not constitute educational or medical advice. Listeners should consult with professionals familiar with each individual or family for specific guidance.
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Hi, I'm Dr. Barry Prazant, clinical scholar, researcher, and consultant on autism and neurodiversity, and a Brooklyn boy raised in the big city. And I'm Dave.
I'm none of those things, and I grew up on a farm in Illinois. But being on the spectrum myself, I have plenty of personal insight to lend.
And this is Uniquely Human the Podcast, a show that illuminates and celebrates autism and neurodiversity.
Today on Uniquely Human the Podcast, we are going to focus on a very, very important issue, and uh that is PDA, and we'll be talking about the various ways to interpret that acronym. But we are thrilled to have Kendall Damaschek with us, uh, and we'll get much more specifically into why she is the important expert. to discuss PDA with us. So welcome Kendall.
Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here.
And it's a pleasure to have you. I think you're like that perfect human being for us to have in discussing this topic. So let let's uh share with our listeners a little bit why that's the case. Uh Kendall Damaschek is a parent coach and director of content and curriculum for at-peace parents. Kendall brings her unique experience as a PDA autistic mother raising four PDA humans under the age of ten. She has an educational background in psychology and neuroscience and a BA from Amherst College. Oh, you're just a little bit north of where I am here in Rhode Island.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh Kendall was the lead research assistant on a project studying therapeutic alliance at UMass Amherst and worked with middle school children in San Francisco before focusing our energy and creativity on parenting and caregiving. So you have both the living lived experience as well as the content expertise. So let's start with square one. So many people have heard the term pathological. psychological demand avoidance, one interpretation of PDA, but not everyone understands what it actually feels like. So how is it typically defined and what goes on since you live BDA? What goes on inside your mind and body? More than.
Yeah. So typically nowadays, like the the definition that you'll hear is that it's an anxiety based need for control. But Um, I don't find that to be consistent with my experience or with the experiences of the families that I work with. Um, at Peace Parents, we define it as a survival drive for autonomy um and equality that consistently overrides other survival instincts, such as eating, sleeping, toileting, hygiene, and or safety. And this can be in the moment or over time as nervous system activation accumulates. Um And I think it's important also to distinguish that like it's not just about demands, right? But like when something feels externally imposed, like yes, we can look at it as a as a demand or a loss of autonomy.
But there are also things that are demanding that Aren't avoided, right? Like that, you know, for instance, like when I'm regulated and focusing on my special interest, um, I you know, could be working until one or two in the morning on, you know, responding to to families uh that we work with in our, you know, in our programs. Um, and that doesn't feel like a demand, right? Like I'm focused. It's not something I'm avoiding. Um if I'm going, you know, thrift shopping, that's like a special interest of mine. So like that doesn't feel like a demand, but there's lots of demands included in there, right? Um But when there is a loss of autonomy around whether or not we get to do the activity or not do the activity.
That's when we see those kind of demand-avoidant behaviors prop up. So and and what that feels like can vary, right? Um So like
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–11:34
2
What is Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and how is it defined?
11:34–20:11
3
How does Kendall describe the physiological and nervous‑system response behind PDA behaviors?
20:11–30:54
4
Why are PDA behaviors often mislabeled as oppositional, defiant, or manipulative?
30:54–58:01
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