Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an unspoiled network podcast. This is unspoiled, covering the Dresden Files, book 18, 12 months, chapters 35 and 36. In these chapters, we finally find out what has been flying overhead throughout this book and meet the Spice Goyles.
Welcome to unspoiled. Welcome.
Welcome to the show, everyone. I am Natasha.
I'm Rashawn.
So, I have been just so eager for you to get here because I, like you, fully expected this to be something very bad. I didn't like it. And then these absolutely delightful little weirdos turned up and I was just enchanted. So, what did you think?
I, um, I have been... Trying so hard to come up with something that made sense. That would explain what was hovering over Harry. And you could have given me a million more years and I never would have landed on Gargoyles.
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Chapter 2: What new characters are introduced in chapters 35 and 36?
Yeah. It just was not something I was thinking about. I didn't know it was something that Jim Butcher was thinking about. But I am smitten. I really am. And the reveal, because we meet and speak with Basil. Yeah. Which is, like, okay for a name, you know.
It's a pretty average name. Right? Yeah.
That joke at the end, when you meet the rest of the crew, and they're all different spices. Just chef's kiss. Mm-hmm. Just... The... How literal they are. Yes.
Chapter 3: How do the Spice Goyles impact the story?
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Bob being just like, oh, they're such bummers. My God, these guys are the worst. It was perfection.
It's like, Bob, I don't know if you understand how much of their appeal is that they annoy you, but you may want to cut back on letting us know how much they annoy you because it's really a feature for me.
It really is. I mean, this is so fun though. Like, This is really, really fun, this idea here. And, I mean, also, we got gargoyles on our side now.
Yeah.
Like, come fuck with us. Come fuck with us. I was tickled by the whole thing, though. I really was. And I was really relieved, too, that it turned out to be something good. Yes. You know, you get so used to the sky falling all the time in these books. Anytime there's a hint of weirdness going around, it's unexplained. You're just like, oh, what the fuck is this shit going to be now?
Yeah.
And it turns out to be, like, something good. It's so... Both of these two chapters... really felt kind of like a lifting of spirits, almost. Yeah. And no, like, pun intended. It's the use of the word spirit there. Tee hee. Tee hee. But it just felt, like, hopeful. Yeah.
I think part of it is, like, Harry making that joke also. Like, when's the last time he made, like, a little punny joke? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It just feels like, oh, there you are. Yeah. A little bit, you know?
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Chapter 4: What is the significance of Harry's interactions with the Spice Goyles?
And I know I feel like I say every episode, like, this is when things are going to turn around. I don't know. But it definitely is giving... There's a reason... Why we hung on. There's a reason why we keep fighting. We are not in this alone. And sometimes we have allies or resources or friendships or whatever. that we don't even know that we have available to us until we invite them in.
Literally, he invited these motherfuckers in. Yes. Which, which, Harry, that was really sloppy.
Yeah. I love when Bear is like...
just well how did they get and harry keeps having to admit both to her and to bob i may have told them to come on and perhaps i just like extended an invitation to something that i had no idea what it was that's that's my bad i've been having a rough couple of months i don't know if you guys have been paying attention or not not in my best frame of mind lately that's that's that was on me right but uh
But yeah, no, really good. Two really good chapters. The first one, even though it's a little bit more not a downer, but it's like seriousness of it, like going to see Thomas and it's heavier, but also somehow still really it's still like Not oppressive, you know? Like, there's still something hopeful about it. There's something about watching Lara and Harry trust each other more and more. Yeah.
It's become, like, more and more vulnerable. Mm-hmm. Lara being as honest and as forthright as she's being with Harry in this chapter about things that are probably... Like how her hunger works, how she feeds, you know. Yeah. This is all stuff that is information, which is power, that she's like giving away to someone who could use it against her if they were so inclined.
And she's trusting in Harry enough to do it anyway. Good chapters, guys. that's a long, that was a long preamble.
I'm sorry, but it was just, no, I mean like this is, this is the, the tease I guess is what they call it. Right. Um, so starting with that first of the, the two, which is him and Lara at dinner. First of all, we get like the very silly tropey. Everything's in French. I don't even know what to order. And, uh, He winds up saying, because she's like, would you be offended if I ordered for you?
And at first he's like, you're not going to like prank me. You're going to give me snail. Yeah. And finally he's like. Yeah, alright, you can order for me. And I just love this as a little metaphor for a tiny bit of growing trust in Harry for her. It's the smallest possible thing. He lets her order a meal. But it's still, like, something.
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Chapter 5: How does Harry reflect on his past relationships?
We have seen Harry like, initiate the, to see if it's possible with Lara. But it's really unclear if he could do something like this against somebody's will.
Yeah.
Or if them fighting back in addition to the demon fighting back would just make it impossible to accomplish.
And Thomas' hunger, I guess it's fair to mention, Thomas' hunger is like on steroids compared to Lara's. We find out too over dinner that she hasn't fed since New Year's Eve with Harry.
and the experiment and I mean from what she's saying that was a real good time for her like a real real real good time yeah it's like the equivalent of a woman having an orgasm for the first time versus thinking that she has been having orgasms this whole time and suddenly she's with somebody that doesn't and she's just like oh oh I thought oh shit yeah you know like
she says something about how it was vital. And he is thinking on how that's what magic is, is like the life force of the world. And so it would make sense that this is like a pure and distilled nutrition-dense version, you know, of like what she would normally be eating.
I, um... I like the moment where Harry is like, maybe there's not as much difference between the white court and the white council after all. Because we just, you know, use energy that we collect from external sources to power our magic. We're kind of feeding also. Yeah, so I mean, I appreciated that moment of him thinking about that.
He says, maybe it was my magic specifically that the outsider had been in tune enough to feed upon when he's talking about, when he's thinking about why Lara's experience with him was so phenomenal.
Yeah.
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Chapter 6: What are the themes of trust and vulnerability in this episode?
So we have to make up, well, I think what he's thinking is, well, yeah, but why would we not know what he's thinking? That should be something that is happening in his head that we're privy to. And it's just bizarre to me. That we're going to introduce this idea and then not touch it at all. Like it's a hot stove, but then drop it in a moment like this.
And then again, it's not like he says anything out loud to Lara and he doesn't even think over the Starborn thing for very long. It's just a, it's a wild card moving on. Like it's really weird. I don't understand it.
I'm trying to remember. I feel like when you expressed annoyance a little while ago, I was much more on team. Maybe he just doesn't want to know. And I have gradually switched teams. Because it is getting to be a bit like... Now you're just fucking with me. Yeah. Either tell me the thing or not, or don't, you know. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah.
But then also he was fucking with me about the hovering spirits and that turned out to be delightful. So then maybe I should just let Jim put the book. Right. Maybe just let him do what he does.
I think that there's a difference because that is something that he's been fucking with you within this one book and then delivers only halfway through the book. Like the Starborn thing, it's been a minute and we have gotten no forward movement on it. So I think that's...
a totally different situation whatever it is it must be big and i mean as a as a reader um not like what what you know what harry's thinking but it's like somebody who's anticipating a reveal the way he's been dancing around this for so many books it's gotta be unless he's george rr martin himself into a corner Which, God fucking forbid. But, um, it's gonna be huge.
Whatever this reveal's gotta be, right? He's gonna, we're gonna find out that, like, Dracul, Jesus, Muhammad, like, all these, you know, they were all fucking stars. Like, it's gonna be some, like, insane, like, like, lineage of people who have shifted the whole, like, way the world was operating. My God, can you imagine Harry Dresden's ego?
I mean... The thing is that... Would it be? Or would it just be like... I don't need more pressure on me. I don't. I wasn't asking for this. You know what I mean? It depends on how hot that winter mantle is. The one thing that we know is that it gives him a little extra control over outsiders.
and it's not even like you can control them when no one else can other people can potentially but you have an advantage so it's not even like that's a defining characteristic it's like significant but it's not yeah it's not the thing it's not the thing it's gotta be something it's gotta be it's gonna be it's gotta be huge
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Chapter 7: How does the concept of safety play a role in the narrative?
We do not. Okay. No.
Okay.
All right. It's... The only thing also is that, like, Mab's job... is holding back outsiders from coming through the gates. Like that's a whole thing that she is dedicated for. That's the point of winter. And so it makes sense that she really wants him for her night. And that's kind of like it also.
That's all we got going?
Yeah.
For right now?
So.
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Okay.
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Chapter 8: What does Harry learn about himself in these chapters?
Well, I guess I don't have any choice but to put a pin in that.
Yeah.
Pretty much. Since he's not offering us anything useful. Um.
I am really interested, though, in your idea about Lara, like, wanting to help Harry because it potentially could be used against her dad. I don't feel like... I feel like I went crazy for a second. I'm like, it may be the sort of thing that maybe hasn't even occurred to her yet because it's so uncertain whether this will work.
But I could see... Because it feels like her father is just sort of this gnat that's, like, buzzing around, still being fucking annoying. And... The way that she's like, you heard that he was out here making moves? What does he think he's going to do? Mm-hmm. I don't love that, that he seems to feel like he's going to be able to pull something off.
Like, that feels like it's either wildly wishful thinking naivete, which doesn't seem like him, or he knows something we don't, which I hate.
Yeah. Like, the fact that we're even seeing him after not seeing him, he has nothing to say for a minute. And now he's back and he's cocky as fuck and very arrogant. And it definitely feels like he knows something that we don't know yet. Yeah. Of course, it's possible he was just trying to fuck with Harry's head. Definitely. And part doubt and reservation. But it really did feel like...
I know something you don't know. You know what I mean? It really did feel like that. Yeah. And I don't care for it. Agreed. Him roaming, or as you said, like a gnat flitting around, undermining her.
I know something you don't know. Oh, God, I just want to slap him just for that. That wasn't even what he said.
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