We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson
The Divorce Lawyer Reveals Why Marriages Really Fail
05 May 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What does James Sexton believe is the real reason marriages fail?
I hope your marriage ends in death, because someday this will end, either in death or divorce. But marriages fail 70% of the time. And so just work on these three things. You are the most famous divorce attorney in the world. What is the problem to which marriage is a solution? You tell me.
Chapter 2: Why should couples consider a prenup before marriage?
Me? Yeah. You're married. What do you want me to tell you? Listen, here's what I'll tell you people would answer. I'm lonely. Guess what? There's a special loneliness. when you're unhappily married. Because you've got sitting next to you, your person. Yes. And you feel so alone. I just think there's something really beautiful about our desire to love and to be loved.
Like, I remember saying once, do you know how much I love you? Do you know I love you? Because I want you to feel my love.
How do we determine if we should be divorced or just simply work on the satisfaction?
The first step is always, this is wild. So this is why like you should see a divorce lawyer before you get married. You just did the most legally significant thing you will ever do other than dying. And you think about what cake will we have.
Chapter 3: How can couples identify if they should work on their marriage or consider divorce?
Okay. What are three things that you wish people knew before they got married? Hey there, before we begin the episode, I just want to say thank you for choosing We Need to Talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life, and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.
James Sexton, we need to talk. Let's talk. All right, so first I have to gas you up. Okay. All right, I'm going to gas you up. I'll take it. So we started this podcast a little over a year ago. I created a list of people that I most wanted to interview. You were on that list. That's very, wow. You were on that list.
Chapter 4: What are the key factors to consider before getting married?
So I'm going to say, in my opinion, you are the most famous divorce attorney in the world. I probably am at this point.
Yes.
which is a little bit like saying like, you are the best looking guy in the leper colony. Like, yes, I am the most recognizable and well-known divorce lawyer. Are you proud of that? Yeah. I'm proud of that. Yeah, I love what I do. I love my job. I love my work. I still spend four or five days a week in court. I've worked very hard to hone my craft as a trial lawyer.
I represent amazing people who trust me with the most important things in their lives, their children, their wealth. And I love being in court. I love the art of argument. I love advocacy. I love being in a courtroom. I love cross-examination. I love everything about being a trial lawyer. And I also love the fact that through sort of
I don't want to say no fault of my own, but through sort of a fortuitous tripping into this quasi celebrity, people know me as a divorce lawyer now.
Yes, they do. Now, I will say this. I hope I never have to use you. Good. Yes.
I hope you don't either. Well, I'll say it even worse. I hope your marriage ends in death. I mean, it's the truth. Every marriage ends. True. It ends in death or divorce. And when you say to someone, you know, congratulations on your marriage, what you're saying is, congratulations, I hope this ends in death. Because it's always going to end.
And I actually think there's a reason to keep that in your line of sight. Because if you don't keep that in your line of sight, you make the mistake of thinking that love is permanently gifted rather than loaned. And really every day you get up and make a decision to continue to loan your love, yourself, your being, your connection to this other person.
But I think we just very quickly go, okay, I've got that covered. I've got this now. and I'm just gonna focus on other things. And we just let that gradually fall apart.
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Chapter 5: What insights does James share about second marriages?
And then they're better at it and they enjoy it more. And so for me, second marriages have a much higher satisfaction rate than first marriages. But they have a slightly higher failure rate. There's something like 58% of second marriages end in divorce. So it's a slightly higher failure rate. What I find beautiful about how quickly and consistently people get remarried
is that it tells me something about how important this is to us. And that's not lawyer Jim talking now. That's relationship person. Like I hesitate to say relationship expert, but relationship person, you know, because I really think that's beautiful. It means that this is really important to us. Like this is something we want to be good at. It's something we need. It's something that
I think it's something that's just beautiful to us and we run to it. We just want it so bad because something in us wants this thing.
Yeah, we want it.
We want this connection. I think it's the most lovely thing that we just keep trying. And we're so human. We're so human that we fail so consistently at this thing through our own weakness and short-sightedness. And I think there's something really beautiful about that. I just think there's something really beautiful about our desire to love and to be loved. Because I think...
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Chapter 6: How can couples effectively communicate about their relationship?
I think our greatest fear is that we're not worthy of love. I think our greatest fear is that if someone knew us, they wouldn't love us.
Do you project that marriage rates will increase, decrease, or stay the same?
I think we are... I think we are doing what we do as a culture, which is we overcorrect. So I think for a period of time, the marriage rate was down, the divorce rate was up. Now I'm seeing a lot of resurgence of traditional religion and traditional gender roles.
So I think we're going to roll in the other direction all of a sudden, and there's going to be more people getting married, fewer people getting divorced, more rigidity of gender roles. And then I think once again, we'll overcorrect in the other direction. Like I've lived through as a 53 year old man, I've watched this pendulum swing a few times.
And for some reason, we just can't get ourselves into the middle. What is the problem to which marriage is a solution? You tell me. Me? You're married.
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Chapter 7: What are the challenges faced by famous couples in relationships?
What do you want me to tell you? Listen, what is the problem? Here's what I'll tell you people would answer.
Okay.
I'm lonely. I don't want to be lonely. Guess what? be married and be lonely. There's a special loneliness when you're unhappily married because you've got sitting next to you a person who's supposed to be your person and you feel so alone and by yourself and isolated. So it's not a cure for loneliness. I want a steady supply of sex.
We have sex and this is a way to guarantee we're going to keep having sex. Can you even say that out loud and not laugh? The fact that you're married as a guarantee that you're going to have a steady supply of sex is like saying, I live near a restaurant. So that guarantees I'm going to get to be well fed every single day.
Chapter 8: How do personal experiences shape views on love and relationships?
Buffets every night. Right. Right. So what is it? My parents want me to get married. Okay. Like that's a reason. That's a reason a lot of people would answer. God wants me to get married. Right. That's a big one. That's a big one. I can't argue with that. Okay.
Okay, and again, if you say the reason I got married is because God wants me to, cool, then you also acknowledge that God also handed down these two rules. Doesn't that tell you this has been a problem for a really long time? Like, because personally, I don't know when infidelity was invented, but I feel like it was probably like 10 minutes after monogamy was invented.
Right, so you think monogamy came first? I mean, I guess it had to be by definition, right?
Like it had to be, otherwise there's no rule to break. It could have been a theory.
Right. But I believe it was probably like a cave, you know, and the caveman and whatever was kind of grunted that he's going to, you know, this is his this is his woman or whatever. Yes. And they're by the fire and she's with the kid and holding on to it. And he was like, I'm going to, you know, he didn't say it eloquently, but he was like, I'm going to go and I'm going to go get the elk.
And he walked out to get the elk and saw like another decent looking loincloth. And he kind of went like, well, I'm out here getting an elk anyway, I might as well say hello over here. And that's it. And that's it. We're off to the races. 10 minutes later. We're off to the races, you know?
And we've evolved this as we have most things, but the underlying thing, like, you know, technology offers us real solutions to imaginary problems and imaginary solutions to real problems.
Okay.
So like, this has been a real problem for a real long time. And now we have much more complex ways to cheat and much more complex ways to figure out that someone's cheating and sort of punish them or, you know, identify it if they do.
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