Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
If they want to prove a defamation suit, they have to prove, A, you lied. They have to prove that you knew you lied. And they have to prove that you did it with malice. And that bar is so high, they'll never be able to prove that because you told the truth. And the truth is always the best defense. But not now.
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Today on We're Out of Time, I'm joined by Dr. Wendy Walsh, relationship expert, author, and professor of psychology at Cal State Channel Islands. She's the host of the Dr. Wendy Walsh Show on KFI AM 640 and iHeart Radio, and one of the most trusted voices on the science of love connection and human behavior. Wendy, thrilled to have you.
Thank you so much for having me here.
Pleasure's all mine, believe me. So we're going to get right into it. You often say love is a science. What do you mean by that?
People think it's a mystery, and it's not. It's actually pretty quantifiable. And I should tell you that the reason why I became interested in this area, the science of love, is because I had what I thought was such bad luck in relationships, dating so many bad boys and playboys and people that couldn't make a commitment, and my heart was constantly being broken.
And then I realized there was a common denominator in every one of my relationships.
You?
Me. I was picking them, right? And so once I learned that love is actually partly biological, partly psychological, and partly social, and that it could be broken down into components and steps, the truth is relationships aren't about luck, they're about skill. And when you have good relationship skills, you are not only attracted to more people, you're attractive to more people.
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Chapter 2: What does Dr. Wendy Walsh mean when she says love is a science?
I didn't understand it. That is so heartbreaking. Love is not about finding happiness. It's actually about finding the familiar. And if our early life was filled with loss... That's what we think love is.
Because that was our model.
That was the model, right? Then we get into sociology, which is most people talk about, right? The mating marketplace right now. We're in a time where we have an oversupply of successful women in the mating marketplace.
Wait, one more time. An oversupply of successful women?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the worst place for a young working woman who wants to reproduce to live is would be New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, any big urban center, because she is surging ahead in her education, in her money. The men are because, and I should say, the other piece of sociology is that when you put sex out into the culture in high supply,
which is happening because women can now enjoy their body's pleasures for their own sake. They don't need marriage to have sex. They don't need to market their vaginas as sign me up so you'll take care of me. And what happens to a culture when there's so much easy, free sex? Men lose ambition. Men sit at home in their mom's basement and play games and text in a hookup any night of the week.
And so the women are upset because the men aren't achieving, but it's actually the preponderance of sex in the culture that's creating the loser guys. Loser in there, so my advice to those women all the way is stop going after your idea of a power man. Your idea of a power man might just be a guy who can power a stroller.
Look at those blue collar workers, those electricians and plumbers and guys who are fixing your roads who are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Stop being an elitist. Start thinking about what your family needs if you wanna create a healthy nest for kids.
That depressed me.
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Chapter 3: How do attachment patterns influence relationship choices?
They did. But reproduction is urgent for women. And they may not be consciously aware, but most of what we do, by the way, is completely unconscious.
That's right.
Exactly. So anyway, men are enjoying all the free sex, losing ambition along the way, not knowing why.
I want to talk about the free sex because I'm not buying that just yet. Okay. We are in a completely different world than when you and I were kids. Okay. There was no OnlyFans. Right. Okay. There was no Pornhub or any of that.
Or even slutty Instagram feeds, right? Like regular women just putting sexy pictures up all day long.
But you did have those late night commercials where, call me now. I know. Right. And they had these really sexy voices where the only thing they should be asking anyone was, will you be using your visa or MasterCard?
Exactly. Those kind of voices.
Right. So we had that. We had Playboy magazine. We had. Right. But now the porn is what is happening.
Well, let's talk about what the research says about chronic porn use. First of all, let's talk about big cultural ramifications. When you have an oversupply of young men in a culture, that's a dangerous thing. Crime rates go up. They're frustrated. They can't find mates. You need a war to get rid of some of them, actually. They're pretty dispensable.
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Chapter 4: What is the modern mating marketplace and its challenges?
offspring of any primate so in human beings one guy's investment in his kids could just be one teaspoon of sperm and he's done another guy's investment could be a baby wearing softball throwing carpool driving doting dad and we have everything in between and I always tell women shop for a father if you want to reproduce don't shop for a good-looking boyfriend that's beautiful
So the bigger his balls, the more violent he is.
Yeah. And the more sexual. So I have a podcast called Mating Matters. And one episode is called The Trouble with Testosterone. And I cite a lot of studies that show that higher testosterone men tend to cheat more, have less empathy and compassion, have trouble falling in love. And yeah, get in bar fights. They're the dudes, right? So here's a really cool thing. I love...
I love evolutionary psychology because it explains all of life to me. So when humans are born as a species, we have far more males than females that are born. And then what happens is that testosterone makes young guys do a lot of bonehead moves. They drive motorcycles too fast, they get in bar fights, they go to war, all that stuff, and we lose a bunch of them.
By the time we hit 40, we're about equal, males and females.
You're kidding.
Then we get into the old age homes and hey, it is the lucky guy with the bottle of Viagra in an assisted living care or retirement home because there's so many women because the men are dying off from all the diseases. So it does the flip at the end of life.
That's fantastic. Isn't that cool? Yeah, it is. Well, considering I'm 59. Oh yeah. It's getting good.
And we have an oversupply of successful women and you like lots of sex. So all good for you. The most important thing is you have to be honest. Unfortunately, The best way that men have learned to obtain a short-term relationship is to pretend they want a long-term relationship.
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Chapter 5: How does chronic pornography use affect relationships?
How does, how do addiction and attachment overlap?
Ooh, that's a great one.
Can chemistry ever be mistaken for dependency?
Uh, you mean love chemistry? Yes. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So. On the attachment scale, and it's quite a scale, and nobody has one attachment style with everybody, right? You might have a different kind of attachment style with your friends, your colleagues, your lovers, et cetera.
But for people that have an anxious attachment style, the underbelly of it, and it's largely unconscious, is a deep fear of abandonment.
For sure.
And they cannot tolerate that feeling. And that's what leads to using substances for addiction because they are trying to use medicine as a coping strategy for the uncomfortable feelings. And so that's where the big overlap is. On the other hand, You mentioned sex. For some people, sex is a drug because of the dopamine, right? Well, not just dopamine, norepinephrine, vasopressin, oxytocin.
It's a big bonding hormone. Guys have oxytocin too, right? It is so wonderful, those natural drugs and often the best drugs that we have. But people also have trouble withdrawing or tolerating not having those drugs available to them all times.
Right. I want to get back to the OnlyFans thing and the sexual economy.
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