Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
When I found out he was cheating, I sent him one text, very nice text, didn't mention the cheating, just said, I'm not sure what to do here. I'm always here for you, blah, blah, blah. Gave him a couple of weeks, didn't respond, and I filed for divorce. I never heard from him again.
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Today on We're Out of Time, I'm joined by Sonia Collin, co-host of the podcast Sisters in Sobriety. Sonia is part of a growing movement, especially among women who are rethinking their relationship with alcohol and choosing sobriety for better mental health, clarity, and connection.
Through her podcast and community, she's created a space where women can talk openly about drinking culture, recovery, and the pressures that often push people toward alcohol in the first place. Sonia, welcome.
Hi, Richard. Thanks for having me.
Of course. For people who may not know your story yet, what led you personally to reevaluate your relationship with alcohol?
Yeah, I think my story isn't that unique in the sense that I started drinking when I was in my early teens and really chalked it up as normal all through college. And I had the little extra few consequences, like, oh, I'm getting my stomach pumped at the hospital after partying all night, but still kind of was in the realm of normal.
And then when I and then I went to dental school, I became a dentist, I did my residency. And all through that, I became an orthodontist. And I was steadily starting to drink with more frequency. And then when I was finally done with school, I was like 30. I really I started to drink every night. And so I would come home from work, and I would open a bottle of wine.
And again, like really was able to chalk it up as pretty normal. And like I had a really high pressure career. We were we had started our own practice. And I had like by by the time I quit drinking and I sold my business, we had eight practices. And so I really was in this work hard phase. play hard sort of life.
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Chapter 2: What led Sonia Kahlon to reevaluate her relationship with alcohol?
And that was, I can't even tell you what it felt like two days was. And so that's whenever anyone tells me they've gone a day, I'm like, you did the hardest part. And so I did two days and then I just strung together, I white knuckled for a while and I strung together some days and I strung together some sobriety and then I... I finally told my brother after a few weeks.
And of course, he wanted me to go to AA. And I said, no, it's not for me. What if there's what if my patients are at the meetings? I had eight offices right in and around Philly. And so I'm like, where can I go to an AA meeting? Like, where are they going to see Dr. Cowan at their AA meeting and then call their, you know, report me to like, you know, the dental board.
And so, yeah, so that was my story about getting sober.
Isn't that funny that every alcoholic Everyone that I've ever spoken to at the very beginning says, I'm embarrassed to go. What if somebody sees me? And it's like, dude, if they see you, they have the same shit going on. They'll be happy to see you. Unbelievable. I know. I remember one time that I started advertising on Grindr. And everybody was like, you can't do that.
We're gonna get a bad reputation. And I'm like, what are you talking about? They're like, this is not okay. It's like, I'm like, what do you mean it's not okay? I'm like, they're like, well, somebody's gonna see it. I go, the only people who are gonna see it are the people who are on it. And those are the people we wanna help. Unbelievable, same thing.
But I do think there is a particular stigma. I'm sure you've treated a lot of professionals with professional licenses and there is this stigma to it, to that and to any mental health thing because every two years I renew my dental license and there's questions about have you sought treatment for mental health? Have you sought treatment for addiction? Have you abused drugs or alcohol?
in the last two years, and if you answer yes, you have to provide some sort of explanation. And none of us answer yes, because none of us want to know what the consequences are of saying yes and providing explanation.
I don't know if anyone- None of you say yes because we're alcoholics and we lie every time we open our mouth, okay? So, I mean, if you're gonna lie to keep up the secret life that you've got, you're not gonna answer yes on the questionnaire. Right. I mean, it just doesn't work. The name sisters in sobriety really suggests community.
Why is that sense of connection so important in recovery and where the hell's your sister?
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Chapter 3: How did Sonia's high-pressure career impact her drinking habits?
He gets divorced, does it again like he you know. And so the second time he did it was with my sister in sobriety, Kathleen. And so he he. He married Kathleen when he was sober. They stayed together like seven years. He stayed sober and like within weeks of them... Breaking up, he relapsed pretty badly and had a DUI and lost custody of his kids.
And so and so it was really then I had been really quiet about my sobriety, like for years. So I sold my business. I got sober. I just like very quietly stayed sober. didn't have any community. I was married at the time. I'd been with my ex for almost 18 years by the time we broke up. And he was very sensitive to me labeling myself as anything or an alcoholic.
So anytime we'd be out to dinner and I didn't order a glass of wine, for example, he'd say, oh, Sonia doesn't drink. He didn't want me to say oh, I'm sober. I really just even hated the term sober. So it was when my brother was going through that relapse that my ex-sister-in-law now, Kathleen and I, got really close. And we started talking a lot about sobriety.
And she also at some point got sober from cocaine before she met my brother. And so
as we're going through this i'm like there's something here like there are things we don't talk about right especially as women there's things we're not talking about and then i went through my own divorce a couple of years later and had a really hard time staying sober like really hard was like what the hell is the point now right and um and again like leaned on her
lot and I I remember I was starting to date with like just like disastrous results just disastrous like literally like serial killers like level like of guys that I was going on dates with and I remember after one of these particular serial killers Kathleen said like you're so lucky you're alive like that guy has body parts in his freezer you know and
And I remember again, like wanting to drink and being like, I can't believe I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. And then I called her and I said, we need to start a podcast. Like there, nobody talks about this stuff. Like we, we talk a lot about like, I call it like drunk porn. I do a lot of work in prisons. And, and one thing you don't do in prison. Yeah. Yeah.
Tell me about drunk porn.
OK, so like, OK, so I do a lot of work in prisons. And one thing you don't do is you don't ask somebody what they're in for. OK, you just don't. You don't like, you know, you're not like, hey, what are you in for? And then, you know, you get this like gory sort of like salacious story. And so I think there's like trauma porn. I've met trauma porn guys who are kind of like, what's your trauma?
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Chapter 4: What moment prompted Sonia to stop drinking after years of dependence?
So... I think it's nice to have options and movements that are different.
Absolutely, because everybody needs something different. And I like and I like that titration model for people that are not willing to give it up in one go. And the reason I like that is because it gets them to where they need to be eventually. Right. And, you know, you never want to be in a state of learned helplessness where you get to the point where you're like, what's the use?
And you give up because that's over. Then by the time you get somebody there and they're in that state long enough, it's very hard to dig them out of that hole.
I think it's also really good for good branding. Like I think that that has shifted the culture, the sober curious of it. I think that's why we have so many alcohol-free drinks and like NA beers and like that type of thing. I think it's the sober curious. I don't think...
i don't i'm not sure if they made any beer for alcoholics or addicts i think they made it for people who were like well i feel like going out to watch football but i don't feel like getting trashed every sunday but i still feel like i want to be a part of it
I like the healthier aspects of this movement for sure. Anything that will get people off drugs and alcohol or moderate it to the point where they can have their best life. I'm on board with that. All right. Drinking culture has become so normalized. Wine nights, mommy juice, social drinking everywhere. Why do you think alcohol is so embedded in modern culture, especially for women?
I think this goes back to, again, like why we started the podcast. It's coping mechanisms too, right? And so I think that for me, it was like successful women. That's sort of like what you do, right? And even when you're mentioning like, yeah, I lived in New York and you're going to like Michelin star restaurants and they're pairing wine.
And I wasn't having like a half a glass of wine like you were.
having I was having like 15 glasses of wine with a 15 course meal but I think it's just really embedded into like how we socialize how we cope when I was going through my divorce I wasn't very until then hadn't people knew I didn't drink but they didn't really know why and so my friends that didn't know why were like come over honey let's have a bottle of wine and we can just talk shit about your ex and
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Chapter 5: What challenges did Sonia face during her journey to sobriety?
And so that is basically what he did.
Is he still sleeping with the dentist?
I don't know. OK, so what I did was I said I had been trying to text him right for the he had been gone a few weeks. I'd been trying to text him.
He'd been gone a few weeks and never called.
Called maybe a couple of times at the beginning. Okay.
This guy was smoking crack in a room full of hookers. Yes. That's what this guy was doing.
Yes. So then I was like, this is like, it was shocking. Like after 18 years, I'd not even got a day ever without even talking to him. So slowly stopped responding to texts. Slowly, slowly, slowly. When I found out he was cheating, I sent him one text. Very nice text. Didn't mention the cheating. Just said, I'm not sure what to do here. Like, I love you very much.
If you won't, you know, even let me in or respond to my texts or even I'm not sure like what I can do. I'm always here for you. Blah, blah, blah. Gave him a couple of weeks. Didn't respond. And I filed for divorce. I never heard from him again. Ever? Ever.
Shut up.
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Chapter 6: How does stigma around addiction affect professionals like Sonia?
I didn't transition well either. I was scared to death of the money.
Yes.
Yes, I was.
So the difference was I was scared. I still remain scared of it. Right. He didn't. Loved it. This dude wanted a chopper to the fucking Hamptons. He wants to like, do you know what I mean? Like we reacted to it very differently and neither of us in a super healthy way. So I was terrified of it. Still am to some extent. And he was like, oh, maybe this can be my new identity. Yeah.
Okay, so his thing was, I want to buy a bunch of shit. Yeah. Okay. And your thing was, I don't know what to make of this right now. This is a little scary. I've never been here before. I want to take my time to level up here. Yes.
And I'm getting sober and all these new feelings are coming up and all of a sudden I want to be around like my... my young nieces who I didn't want to be around when I was drunk. Uh, they weren't fun. Um, and so, yeah, I was changing a lot, a lot. And so 47. Yeah. Yeah. When did you sell your business?
In, um, in 2018, I was 52 when I did it.
So what was the transition like?
It was what was like hell, okay? I was afraid of the money. The wire hit on a Friday at about 2.30 in the afternoon, okay? And I was in shock. I'm like looking at it and I'm like, I couldn't speak. You have to understand in the last year that you're selling your business, you feel like you just gave birth to an accountant, right? No, I know. I know.
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Chapter 7: What is the significance of community in recovery according to Sonia?
To me, it was the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. I think that, and this has a lot to do with my drinking and all that, but I don't think I ever really wanted to be an orthodontist. I think that I'm Indian.
Well, you have Indian parents. And so they probably beat you with a ruler until you became a doctor.
Yeah, more than a ruler. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that for me, it was finally like a freedom of like, what do you want to do? Like, you never had a choice. Like, I can't even remember a time that it wasn't like you're going to be a pharmacist, a dentist or a doctor. And so it was like like to me, it was like the world opened up.
And when the wire hit, it was like one of the most even thinking about it makes me emotional. and even now i live a pretty normal life and so i haven't changed much since then um i live in the same house like i'm the same car um but i it is the still the like best thing that ever happened i got sober right um because of it and so Yeah, but I do understand what you're saying.
So for me, when it was like Monday morning and it's like time to go to the office, I was like, no way. And I still wake up Monday mornings and I'm like, yeah, I don't have to go to the office. There is no one happier than me to not have to go to an office.
I have too much time on my hands.
You have the number one mental health podcast and a new treatment center.
I know. I know. But I got the best people in the world that work with me. So trust me when I tell you. Look, I didn't have to staff the place.
Yeah.
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Chapter 8: What does 'sober curious' mean in today's culture?
Oh, you know how I did it?
How?
I blocked them and then erased their contacts so I would never have to deal with them again. All of it.
Did you talk to your therapist about this before you did it?
No, I'm the most over-therapized person on the planet. I can finish my therapist sentences.
I would say that there are healthy ways also to end relationships, but it's not always going to work out. How is that unhealthy? Blocking people?
Oh, my God. Your husband walked out on your house. That's the ultimate block. That is such a block. It all dominates the headlines, but alcohol still kills thousands every year. Do you think its dangers are underestimated, the alcohol part of it?
You know, I think that and we talked about this briefly when you were on on our podcast that I think the margin of error with with opioids is so much smaller than alcohol. Right. But I think alcohol is so ubiquitous. So and related to like so many chronic conditions that that's probably where the balance is that. Yeah, I think but I think now a lot.
don't you feel like i feel like drinking like not drinking is part of like wellness now right like it's yeah i think it's like smoking like yeah like smoking like everybody now knows smoking's bad for you i think but people still smoke and i think most people know now that who smokes who smokes who do you know that smokes okay so this is really interesting okay so i quit smoking 17 years ago
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